10 hours ago, Nemrod said:

 

Thanks for the brain drain. It hurts my head thinking about it sometimes. Thing is, I have two A6400 cameras widely separated in serial number. And UWT sent me a replacement with newer software way back, I mean, it is a now nearly a 5 yo camera and the same with the UWT trigger. None of them worked, not a different camera nor trigger. Beats me :(.

 

I know one thing, this has put me off on (future) cameras that require an external $$$ trigger. At least with the A6400 I can sync off the built in flash which works perfectly, every time, all the time, just not super fast. And it eats my battery if I did not have a booster or onboard charging capability.

I can understand the frustration - so it never worked 100% then?  Did you change out the hotshoe cable connector - that is the piece that is a known trouble maker.

 

See this post by Pavel:

 

If you move away from Sony you at least escape this connector.  I really quite like my OM-1 using the mini flash as a trigger.

Wow talk about thread creep....

I had the A6500 before the a6700 and used the internal flash, with the extra battery in the Nauticam housing that worked pretty well, but I Was always trigger curious as they don't pull the battery down and also recharge faster. One thing I really can't understand though is how the triggers can't work with any flash that would just work with a built in flash? I would get it for the strength, and I'm sure these folks know their stuff, but my EE Brain just thinks if you just emulated what the built in flash would've done and the built in flash can trip all the various strobes in their TTL modes why can't a trigger also do that? Oh well.... Maybe that's why I stopped doing EE stuff after I graduated...

44 minutes ago, gremlin said:

Wow talk about thread creep....

I had the A6500 before the a6700 and used the internal flash, with the extra battery in the Nauticam housing that worked pretty well, but I Was always trigger curious as they don't pull the battery down and also recharge faster. One thing I really can't understand though is how the triggers can't work with any flash that would just work with a built in flash? I would get it for the strength, and I'm sure these folks know their stuff, but my EE Brain just thinks if you just emulated what the built in flash would've done and the built in flash can trip all the various strobes in their TTL modes why can't a trigger also do that? Oh well.... Maybe that's why I stopped doing EE stuff after I graduated...

having an LED match the flash is pretty basic for a a manual trigger, it's the TTL stuff that gets tricky, basically it's reverse engineering the cameras TTL signals and converting them to something the flash can understand - and of course each flash has a different way of doing things. 

No I get that, I guess what I said wasn't clear, I don't understand why different strobe require the triggers to do different things for the TTL to work rather than the Trigger just doing exactly what the built in flash does when used in TTL mode which does trigger the flashes correctly in TTL. In other words why do I have to tell the trigger what strobe it's triggering when I don't do anything to tell a built in flash what strobe it's triggering and that works?

3 hours ago, gremlin said:

No I get that, I guess what I said wasn't clear, I don't understand why different strobe require the triggers to do different things for the TTL to work rather than the Trigger just doing exactly what the built in flash does when used in TTL mode which does trigger the flashes correctly in TTL. In other words why do I have to tell the trigger what strobe it's triggering when I don't do anything to tell a built in flash what strobe it's triggering and that works?

Probably a question to ask Pavel I think, he explained something in a post a while back about the numner of TTL profiles available.   I suspect it has to do with timings and how the TTL commands are communicated.  see here:

 

 

 

I mean I'm sure they're there for a reason and Pavel's a smart dude so I don't doubt they're needed but the engineer in me just can't figure out how the built in flashes have no need of knowing what strobe they're actuating.

Here is one thing I noticed in terms of why profiles are needed vs the on board flash (of the 6400 or similar).  While trying to figure out why I have random fail to sync over the last five years I tried multiple different strobes and board switch settings. I found that if I use the Z240 setting with my D2000 or S2000 the photos would be under exposed. Same settings, using a Z240 the photos were more correctly exposed. Does the duration of the board LED pulse(s) change with the profile switch selector? When using different strobe optically triggered by the integral flash, we naturally make the adjustments that I found needed to use non-supported strobes or the incorrect profile intentionally selected on the board.

 

Since my board(s) were purchased before the S220 I have found that using the S2000 profile works fine but tends to be slightly over exposed compared to my old D2000 and (borrowed) S2000 strobes. Adjustments need to be made either by ISO or within the camera flash exposure +/- to correct. 

 

If the OP were to purchase the new external TTL trigger what does he gain vs the older in housing board type? What is the advantage he would see?

 

For me and my NA6400, when I want to shoot TTL I use the camera integral flash which works perfect, not an option for the A6700. When I want to shoot manual strobe, I use the UWT board and just accept that random photos will not sync, of course those are the ones with the shark or the whale or attack submarine, whatever never again opportunity occurs, but whatever😡. It is what it is. But never again a Sony, just saying. Not even sure I can blame the fail to sync randomly on Sony but I suspect that is where the issue is.

 

What would be cool, for the external TTL trigger, what if it had a +/- dial on it?

 

Edited April 3Apr 3 by Nemrod

1 hour ago, Nemrod said:

What would be cool, for the external TTL trigger, what if it had a +/- dial on it?

That's already accomplished by the flash compensation menu in the camera and, on most strobes, the power knob. 

11 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

That's already accomplished by the flash compensation menu in the camera and, on most strobes, the power knob. 

 

That I understand but on the camera that requires going into the menu and pushing buttons and if working two strobes that requires two adjustments rather than using a master controller on the trigger. It was just wishful thinking considering it costs $650 what would be another $100 to have a power dial on the converter. Just looking towards the future day I might jump to another system what I might would want other than not wanting another Sony Alpha.

Edited April 3Apr 3 by Nemrod

One thing I learned and it may not apply to other Alpha cameras with the UWT board (maybe only to mine?) is how to trick the camera to give me a little faster shutter sync. What I do, when I know I am setting up for a sun ball photo is to turn WL to Off and then set shutter speed to maximum 1/160. Then turn WL to On and the shutter speed will default to 1/200. It is not sticky so as soon as the camera is turned off if WL is On when the camera comes back on the shutter speed will drop to 1/125. With WL to On I cannot choose 1/160, to shoot at 1/160 I must turn WL to Off. And again, once set to 1/160 if I turn WL to On, the shutter will go from 1/160 to 1/200. With WL on the available shutter speeds are 1/125-1/200-1/250 and so on. If I select 1/250 the strobe no longer fires and if I go back down I must go all the way down to 1/125 to get strobe again with 1/125 being maximum sync speed available until I again select WL to Off. Did I mention that as much as I like my camera rig, I also hate it. 

Edited April 4Apr 4 by Nemrod

The Help Guide for my A7CR states that flash synch speed is 1/160 for FF and 1/200 for APS-C, using a Sony flash.

In practice I get 1/200 for FF with no probs, using Nauticam manual flash trigger and optical cables. Any faster, the black line appears at the top of the frame.

Having cut my photo teeth on Nikonos 1/60 max flash synch (and using flash bulbs before that), this is sheer luxury...!

On 3/17/2025 at 9:07 AM, Lewis88 said:

At least on my A6100, if you turn on silent shooting, it will disable the built in flash. Not sure if that works with triggers as well.

The same happens with the a6700. Turning on the electronic shutter/silent shooting disables the flash entirely. This is true for any type of flash, I have tested this with my Turtle-2, an external wireless strobe controller (for big standalone studio strobes), and a speedlight. 

 

On 3/18/2025 at 6:18 PM, gremlin said:

Maybe, as I said above I really like to have TTL as well, so maybe there's not a solution that offers all of this, I'll have to play a bit more with the Turtle and see if I put it into wireless flash mode if I can do that.

 

I think the e-shutter is the solution for you. I shoot almost exclusively Inon S-TTL all the time with my a6700, and could, if I wanted to disable the flash by switching to silent shooting. I'm not 100% sure how all that interacts with Program mode, since I typically only use full manual, but it should be a starting point for you to test with. 

 

ETA: Wireless mode might not accomplish what you want, depending on how you have your Turtle configured. Using the S-TURTLE app you can set different functions for the wireless mode, including "stroboscopic" mode which would (I think) be what folks are using for focus stacking like was mentioned earlier. 

Edited April 8Apr 8 by Craine
Additional info

 

Since the thread is nominally about what we're using for shooting the a6700 underwater, I figured I'd chime in with what I have/use/do.

 

The equipment:

I'm also using the Nauticam NA-A6700, the s-TURTLE 2 TTL trigger, and a pair of Inon D200 (originals, not the Type 2s) with the 4600k diffusers. I have the Nauticam N85 to N120 60mm adapter as a base. For wide angle, I use the Sigma 10-18mm (set at 10mm) and a Zen DP-170. For macro, it's the Canon 60mm/Metabones mk4 adapter and a Nauticam Macro Port 60. 

 

The settings:

I have my MR2 slot programmed for UW shooting, with the following settings:

• Manual Mode
• Shutter: 1/160
• Aperture: f/8
• ISO: 200
• File Format: RAW & HEIF
• RAW File Type: Compressed
• HEIF Quality & Image Size: Extra Fine, L 26MP
• Drive Mode: Single Shooting
• SteadyShot: On
• Metering Mode: Spot/Large
• Spot Metering Point: Focus Point Link
• Flash Mode: Fill-flash
• White Balance: Auto
• Creative Look: VV2
• Picture Profile: Off
• Focus Mode: Continuous AF
• Priority Set in AF-C: Release
• AF Tracking Sensitivity: 3(Standard)
• Aperture Drive in AF: Focus Priority
• AF w/ Shutter: Off
• Focus Area: Tracking: Spot M
• Subject Recognition in AF: On
• Recog Trgt Select Set: Animal/Bird/Insect
• Auto Review: 5 Sec
• Auto Monitor Off: 1 Min
• Power Save Start Time: 5 Min 
• Custom Buttons:
  • Rear1
    • 1 (C1): Flash Comp
    • 2 (AF-On): Tracking On + AF On
    • 3 (C3): Flash Comp
  • Rear2
    • 1: Focus Standard
    • 2: Drive Mode
    • 3: ISO
    • 4: Exposure Comp
  • Top
    • 1 (Record): Finder/Monitor Select
    • 2 (C2): Recog. Target Select
  • Dial/Wheel:
    • 1 (Front): Tv
    • 2 (Top): Av
    • 3 (Back): None

Some thoughts:

Saving all of this as a memory recall set makes it really easy for me to have the right settings when I jump in. I have MR1 set up for bird photography, and MR3 for people/event photography, and with my ADHD brain I will forget to change settings if I don't have it saved.

 

1/160, f/8, ISO200 is, for me, a good starting point whenever I get into the water.

 

I use AWB and the VV2 creative look to have a baseline for my editing, with the embedded preview in the RAW file. WB doesn't really matter for the end result since I'm shooting then editing RAW anyway, but it gets me most of the way there. I use the VV2 creative look because it makes the colors pop a bit more, and for UW I like high saturation/high vibrance. Definitely a personal preference. 

 

The Canon macro is not what I should have gone with, and I am very likely going to sell it in the next month. I will most likely be switching to the Tamron 90mm macro, as I want a little more reach, and the AF on the canon is sluggish and hunts a lot. 

 

I don't have the positioning of the DP-170 dialed in for the Sigma yet, but I really like the FoV of 10mm on an APS-C. The corners are pretty soft, and while it's not something I particularly care about (corners are never something I'm really looking at on WA), it would be useful to find the right amount of extension. 

 

There are (probably) reasons I chose each of the other settings, but I don't want to bore everyone with a novel here. If you have questions, please ask!

On 4/4/2025 at 5:36 PM, Nemrod said:

it may not apply to other Alpha cameras with the UWT board

It doesn't. On my A6700/UWT combination, going above 1/160s automatically engages HSS (the appropriate symbol is shown on screen), which requires the strobes to also be in HSS mode, or they will fire out of sync and not expose the image at all. With a simple SeaFrogs trigger, HSS mode is not engaged, and it syncs at up to 1/250s - the narrow black band on top of the image appears at 1/320s. No tricks are needed to exceed the shutter speed.

Craine thank you for that, that's exactly the kind of post I was looking for. I've been diving in Indonesia the last several days aboard the Arenui and it's been some fabulous diving. I've figured out I can get TTL to work most of the time by setting the flash mode to slow instead of fill flash, but I've been working on doing more manual control and it seems to work well on the turtle with the settings for wireless set to First Curtian with 1/32 power and flashing times set to 1

I'm also using the three positions on the custom dials with #3 set to Manual mode

VV Profile

AWB Underwater mode

Metering Mode multi

Mechanical Shutter (And I found electronic disables flash which is nice)

WL On mostly (flip it off for TTL)

Peak On

Animal/bird target

Slow SYnc Flash

AF-C or DMF focus, I like DMF for macro as it shows peaking nicely so you can set the focus and move a little in and out

Focus Area is Medium Tracking Spot

PP off

#2 is set for aperture priority with similar settings and

#1 is set for program

I shoot raw and don't bother with the embedded files at all since I can easily export after I post process in Lightroom

I'm shooting with two YS-D2J although on my second dive yesterday one of them decided to stop working, the back lights up but no modeling light and no flash, tried swapping batteries, caps, and sync cables no dice, luckily I had a second YS-D2 (non J) in my bag so I switched over to that. A Few people on board have the Retras and man those look nice but wow $$$

I'm shooting the 16-50 with a WWL-1 for wide angle and rapid changing (I also have a CMC-1 for this giving me a bit of flexibility) and a 90mm f2.8 for macro or fish portrait, someone on board had the new Nautical MFO-1 with a flip adapter so I spent a couple of dives playing with that as he forgot his Macro lens and it's pretty nice, I found I swapped it in and out depending on what I was shooting

On 4/8/2025 at 1:42 AM, Barmaglot said:

It doesn't. On my A6700/UWT combination, going above 1/160s automatically engages HSS (the appropriate symbol is shown on screen), which requires the strobes to also be in HSS mode, or they will fire out of sync and not expose the image at all. With a simple SeaFrogs trigger, HSS mode is not engaged, and it syncs at up to 1/250s - the narrow black band on top of the image appears at 1/320s. No tricks are needed to exceed the shutter speed.

Sorry, I should have included the board is set to 0 position.