Sony A7R V

6 hours ago, oneyellowtang said:

@Phil Rudin Helpful... thank you, can you share the title? A quick look through back issues didn't have this pop out...

 

Click on back issues, type Phil Rudin into the search engine and it will list my over 100 articles published. I have two on blackwater. 

6 minutes ago, Phil Rudin said:

Click on back issues, type Phil Rudin into the search engine and it will list my over 100 articles published. I have two on blackwater. 

110 - 111 - 121 are all good reads on this topic and the 90mm

I have been well aware over the past six or seven years the that Sony FE 90mm F/2.8 macro has been a much maligned lens in regard to its auto focus speed. I first used this lens with the Sony A7/A7R II cameras and it was in a word horrible. This is an issue that involves the quality of the camera AF and not the lens. 

At around the same time Jim Decker from Backscatter reviewed the Nikon D850 which has the same basic AF system as the D5 and D500. As we all know this system is excellent with macro lenses and the D850 because the prime choice for many Backscatter staff and is still one of the cameras they recommend most.

Spring forward a few years and Jim Decker reviewed the Sony A7R IV. In this review Jim said that the Sony 90mm macro had excellent image quality but focused very slowly. Jim also said that the Canon 100mm IS macro with Sigma MC-11 adapter was much faster on the A7R IV than the Sony 90mm. I tried both and did not find that to be the case but that may be because I was configuring the AF differently than Jim. If you have heard that the Canon IS macro and Sigma MC-11 are faster than the Sony 90mm macro Jim's review is likely ground zero for the original source. 

Fast forward again and Jim reviewed the Sony A-1. In that review Jim said that the A-1 and 90mm macro combo is the best autofocusing macro lens he has ever used.

Fast forward again and Jim reviewed the A7 IV and again the AF was on par with the A-1 using the 90mm macro. I expect that when the A7R V is reviewed with the 90mm macro results will be in the same range. 

Many of use know Jim Decker to be a through, reliable and unbiased source of information regarding the latest gear. I would suggest that those interested in the Sony FE 90mm macro should consider reading his reviews when considering equipment.

Backscatter definitely know their stuff. But all camera shops are motivated by their customers wanting to upgrade their gear. Fortunately lots of us are motivated to upgrade our gear too!

6 minutes ago, Alex_Mustard said:

Backscatter definitely know their stuff. But all camera shops are motivated by their customers wanting to upgrade their gear. Fortunately lots of us are motivated to upgrade our gear too!

Indeed, I love their overviews, but honestly I've never once seen an unfavourable "review" from them ☺ 

Indeed, I love their overviews, but honestly I've never once seen an unfavourable "review" from them [emoji5] 

As a sidebar regarding using the A7R V in existing housings Ikelite has announced an update kit that allows the A7R V to be used in the Ikelite A7R IV housing. It includes a redesigned camera tray and a user replaceable screw that allows the mode dial lock to be accessed. I suspect these updates may carry over to some (not all) other manufactures housings.

21 hours ago, Phil Rudin said:

As a sidebar regarding using the A7R V in existing housings Ikelite has announced an update kit that allows the A7R V to be used in the Ikelite A7R IV housing. It includes a redesigned camera tray and a user replaceable screw that allows the mode dial lock to be accessed. I suspect these updates may carry over to some (not all) other manufactures housings.

This sounds very interesting, I guess it should, in principle, be possible also with Nauticam housings (when it works for Ikelite)?...

Is it this kit?: https://www.ikelite.com/products/update-kit-for-sony-a7r-v?_pos=12&_fid=8d32657aa&_ss=c

The linked kit is for update of the A7IV housing to A7RV. Could it also be used to update a A7RIV housing to A7RV?

 Is a A7RIV to A7RV update kit also available?

Wolfgang

32 minutes ago, Architeuthis said:

 

This sounds very interesting, I guess it should, in principle, be possible also with Nauticam housings (when it works for Ikelite)?...

Is it this kit?: https://www.ikelite.com/products/update-kit-for-sony-a7r-v?_pos=12&_fid=8d32657aa&_ss=c

The linked kit is for update of the A7IV housing to A7RV. Could it also be used to update a A7RIV housing to A7RV?

 Is a A7RIV to A7RV update kit also available?

 

Wolfgang

 

The Ikelite upgrade kit is spicificley to allow the new Sony A7R V to be used in the Ikelite A7R IV housing. It is not a universal kit for all manufactures if that is what you are asking. As I originally stated in my review for the WACP-C in current uwpmag.com  I  used A7R V in the Nauticam Sony A1 housing NA-A1. My feeling is that if you want to convert that housing the tray needs to be redesigned because with the A1 tray the LCD presses up against the rear of the housing and could cause damage to the LCD. I don't have an A7R IV housing to try the A7R V in but unlike the Nauticam A1 housing when I tried to fit the A7R V into the Marelux A1 housing you could not close the housing at all. Each manufacture has a different approach to design so each housing type and brand would need to be tested. The A7R V LCD is thicker than the A7R IV and A1 LCD's as a result if you have a housing like the Nauticam housing that is designed to allow the screen to tilt it is more likely that a workaround can be found V. a housing which is designed for the LCD to remain flat against the rear of the housing. 

I will be giving the A7R V a run over the next couple of weeks here in Cayman. Will surely be back for advice and to share findings/pictures.

3 hours ago, Alex_Mustard said:

I will be giving the A7R V a run over the next couple of weeks here in Cayman. Will surely be back for advice and to share findings/pictures.

 

Which lens do you have mounted in there? 

Are you also going to be testing any of the WACP-X variants?

Thanks,

- brett

Canon fisheye. Fisheye is the best lens for this destination.

I also have both WACP-1 and WWL-1B to test with the 28-60mm. I'll try and do them on back to back dives so I can comment on how they compare. 

Alex

18 minutes ago, Alex_Mustard said:

Canon fisheye. Fisheye is the best lens for this destination.

I also have both WACP-1 and WWL-1B to test with the 28-60mm. I'll try and do them on back to back dives so I can comment on how they compare. 

Alex

Thanks. Just curious - which adapter are you using?

Given all the recent discussions, maybe somebody there will have a WACP-C that you can test as well.

- brett

15 hours ago, Phil Rudin said:

The Ikelite upgrade kit is spicificley to allow the new Sony A7R V to be used in the Ikelite A7R IV housing. It is not a universal kit for all manufactures if that is what you are asking. As I originally stated in my review for the WACP-C in current uwpmag.com  I  used A7R V in the Nauticam Sony A1 housing NA-A1. My feeling is that if you want to convert that housing the tray needs to be redesigned because with the A1 tray the LCD presses up against the rear of the housing and could cause damage to the LCD. I don't have an A7R IV housing to try the A7R V in but unlike the Nauticam A1 housing when I tried to fit the A7R V into the Marelux A1 housing you could not close the housing at all. Each manufacture has a different approach to design so each housing type and brand would need to be tested. The A7R V LCD is thicker than the A7R IV and A1 LCD's as a result if you have a housing like the Nauticam housing that is designed to allow the screen to tilt it is more likely that a workaround can be found V. a housing which is designed for the LCD to remain flat against the rear of the housing. 

I (hopefully) will get soon a second hand Nauticam housing for A7RIV (NA-A7RIV; old version, not the NA-a2020). I know that the Ikelite tray will not fit into the Nauticam housing, but I wonder whether an upgrade to A7RV is possible (I will buy the camera after having the housing here and the price difference from RIV o RV is not really big). I guess the chances are close to zero?

Wolfgang

Regarding housings Nauticam housings for Sony cameras have a tray where the LCD screen tilts a few degrees rather than sitting flat against the back of the camera body. This allows a better view of the LCD when in the water. With several other manufactures the LCD does not tilt.

The Sony A-1 and A7R IV LCD screens are 6 X 56 X 77mm while the A7R V LVD is 9 X 59 X 80mm. Because the A7R V LCD is 3mm thicker and 3mm taller (longer) it is likely to jam up against the rear of many housings. This was my experience using the A7R V in the Nauticam NA-A1 housing. The other issue is that the R-V has a mode dial lock which older housings are not designed for. This is not an issue if you just set the camera to manual but if you want to move the mode dial it could present a problem.

In the past Nauticam has offered trays to allow older Sony cameras to work in newer housings, like the A7s III in the A-1 housing. It remains to be seen if others will follow Ikelite and offer a tray to fit a new camera into an older housing. 

18 hours ago, Alex_Mustard said:

Canon fisheye. Fisheye is the best lens for this destination.

I also have both WACP-1 and WWL-1B to test with the 28-60mm. I'll try and do them on back to back dives so I can comment on how they compare. 

Alex

Hi Alex, completely off topic but I have been ask about WACP-C and D850 lens selection. Just curious if your prototype has the N120 rather than the WACP-C N100 mount. If it is N100 what extension did you use for 28-70 and did you get full zoom through. Thanks in advance.

1 hour ago, Phil Rudin said:

Hi Alex, completely off topic but I have been ask about WACP-C and D850 lens selection. Just curious if your prototype has the N120 rather than the WACP-C N100 mount. If it is N100 what extension did you use for 28-70 and did you get full zoom through. Thanks in advance.

 The prototype WAPC-C (which is actually labelled WWL-DRY) is just the lens - without the extension ring and buoyancy rings (the prototype does not have them. In that form it allows the Nikon 28-70mm to be used with the full zoom range. I've not seen a production WACP-C yet to compare, but I suspect if you take off the collars it is N100 on the lens itself. I think the prototype is N100 on the back of the lens, like the WACP-1 does on the actual lens (if you take off the buoyancy rings). It is at home, so I can't check. 

Alex

14 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

I (hopefully) will get soon a second hand Nauticam housing for A7RIV (NA-A7RIV; old version, not the NA-a2020). I know that the Ikelite tray will not fit into the Nauticam housing, but I wonder whether an upgrade to A7RV is possible (I will buy the camera after having the housing here and the price difference from RIV o RV is not really big). I guess the chances are close to zero?

 

Wolfgang

 

Depends specifically on the thickness of the camera, I'm assuming the design is similar to my Olympus housing where there is a stop up front which limits how far the camera can be inserted and stabilizes the camera.  I think the Ikelite housings have a greater degree of freedom as there tends to be more room around the camera so potentially easier to adapt.

Comprehensive review from dpreview on the camera

The subject detection is not applicable as well as some of the ergonomics when the camera is inside a housing (i.e. fully articulating screen) however it gives a good idea of the strength and weakness

The IQ is identical to the A7RIV as suspected so it boils down to the feature that are going to make a difference when the camera is inside the housing.

Early impressions - I am finding the A7RV a very easy camera to like. Once you get used to Sony-speak it is an easy camera to set up and shoot. EVFs are not optical viewfinders. But the A7RV has the best EVF I have used so far (had R5 and A7RIV in the pool yesterday). Just as an SLR viewfinder had negatives and positives when you first tried it, compared to the Nikonos 15mm viewfinder, I think that EVFs need to be thought about as a different solution with obvious negatives and positives compared to an SLR viewfinder. Have 3 Sony users on workshop - 2 with A7RIVs - and they are all considering the upgrade.

The AF on the Sony is the best I have used underwater. I have shot older Sony's and Nikons and the R5, but not A1 or Z9 underwater. For wide angle it just works (but then so do most modern cameras). It is excellent at tracking fish with macro lens. It is the first mirrorless I have used that I judge better than any SLR I have used. Animal and Insect subject recognition work on fish, but more so the cameras generic subject detection (with subject recognition turned off) is just great at locking on to the subject and tracking it. The AF is a little slow to get going sometimes, but once up and running it is hugely impressive. It didn't work as well in vey dark places, deep under overhangs, but need to do more tests. To date favourite modes are AF-C with WIDE for wide, and Zone for macro. For macro I have used with and without subject recognition.

The Sony lens choice for UW is still lacking and is the biggest weakness currently of considering Sony. Needs a native fisheye. Canon fisheye on Metabones works well, but always feels like a temporary solution. Native would surely squeeze out more from the image quality. Macro lens range needs expanding and updating - UW photography always demands more than one focal length of macro (for my SLR I brought 60mm, 105mm and 150mm on this trip). I would love to see a new generation 60mm and 120mm to compliment the 90mm. The 90mm is impressively sharp, though. The 28-60mm is a mini-marvel with the WWL-1B and WACP-1. I have only tried the former so far (pool tests show corners perfect at f/9, becoming limiting at f/6.3 for my standards, unless in blue water). I will do a comparison test of the WACP-1 during next week's pool session. With better lens choice the Sony system would be hard to fault.

Image quality is excellent. I struggle to get a WB out of camera that I feel is perfect. I am experimenting both with using AUTO and a K WB. Obviously can be tweaked in post, but I'd rather the camera got it closer. Also I am still not quite happy with how the images look on the camera - they look noticeably better when you download them. Look a bit "compact" when reviewed on camera. Maybe I need to play with JPG settings. 

I am currently using Nauticam trigger, and have a max synch speed of 1/200th, which is a limit. I have an UW Technics one to fit and HSS flashes too, but I want to give the 1/200th limit a fair test, to see how limiting it really is, once I am used to it. For now I am just going to drop my ISO by a couple of clicks and turn my strobes up.