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Is switching between 1st and 2nd curtain sync -Sony A7R5 & s-Turtle2 Smart trigger possible mid-dive?


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I have here a Sony A7R5 that I use in manual mode with two Inon Z330s and the Nauticam manual trigger in front curtain sync. (works reliable up to 1/200s in my hands)...

 

Now I want to exploit the flash modes/possibilities better (and also use my s-Turtle2 smart trigger, that I have bought as a spare), e.g. switch from front-curtain to rear-curtain, test TTL for sharks and eventually use HSS with the Backscatter MF2 (that I also have)...

 

I have assigned the different flash modes to the "C4" button on my Nauticam housing, so that I can switch between different available modes, listed below, UW. In the A7R5 manual I read that the following flash modes are available. The expressions in the menue are a little flowery and I can not clearly correlate them to specific physical modes:

 

Flash Off: The flash does not operate. (o.k., at least this is clear)

Autoflash: The flash works in dark environments or when shooting towards bright light.

Fill-flash: The flash works every time you trigger the shutter.

Slow Sync.: The flash works every time you trigger the shutter. Slow sync shooting allows you to shoot a clear image of both the
subject and the background by slowing the shutter speed. (this flash mode in connection with the Nauticam trigger produces front-curtain sync. with manual flash settings)

Rear Sync.: The flash works right before the exposure is completed every time you trigger the shutter. Rear sync shooting allows you
to shoot a natural image of the trail of a moving subject such as a moving car or a walking person.

 

When using the s-Turtle2 smart trigger could I:

#1.: toggle between Flash Off/front-curtain (manual flash mode)/rear-curtain (manual flash mode) by toggling between "Flash Off"/"Slow Sync"/"Rear Sync" modes?

#2.: When selecting TTL flash exposure instead of manual setting at the Z330s, could I produce the same Off/front-curtain/rear-curtain modes by toggling as in #1?

#3.: When using HSS with Backscatter MF2, how do I have to set the A7R5 flash mode and the s-turtle2 smart trigger?

#4.: Finally, what is the difference between "Autoflash"/"Fill-Flash"/"Slow Sync"? I assume this is all TTL flash exposure with front-curtain, but the automatic is slightly different for different light conditions??

 

Thanks, Wolfgang

 

P.S.: I have send a similar message to Turtle and will keep this tread updated in case I get a response...

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Posted (edited)

Update on flash settings of s-Turtle2 Smart with Sony A7R5, based on EMails with Balazs Kurucz from Turtle:

 

 

#1.: For Mac users, the software to program the s-Turtle 2 Smart flash trigger is NOT available via the Turtle homepage (as is the windows software), but instead can by downloaded from the Apple "app store".

 

#2.: 1st or 2nd curtain flash sync. (in manual mode) is selected via menue point 6. ("WL" for wireless, i.e. glassfiber).

=> Hence, I think, one cannot select between 1st and 2nd curtain by switching the flash sync mode in the camera menue. Instead one has to take the flash trigger out of the housing and program which curtain to use via the software (One still can use the A7R5s menue, and a custom button assigned to flash modes, to switch the flash On/Off, but not for selection of the curtain, as on the surface)...

 

#3.: Manual flash power vs. TTL flash is NOT selected in the software, but just by selecting "manual" or "TTL" directly on the flash...

 

#3.: Balacz recommends to set in the program the "WL strobe power" (also menue point 6.) to 1/32 or 1/16, in case poor quality optical cables are used (I guess these are single core cables; I have multicore fiberes and so far 1/128 works fine (but I just was, so far, just using manual, not TTL))...

Edited by Architeuthis
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Posted (edited)

I have new information from Balzs Kurz from Turtle: he writes that it is possible to switch between 1st and 2nd curtain via the camera menue (and hence UW):

 

"Dear Wolfgang,  

 
I see that the information did not go through perfectly.  

So, I mentioned MANUAL flash mode. This mode is the WL mode, as SONY does not recognize such a mode as manual flash mode. The settings for WL mode can be done here:

image.png


If WL mode is turned off, then "TTL" mode is activated. In this mode, everything can be adjusted from the camera, like first curtain, second curtain...   In the setup software you just need to choose the TTL characteristic.   

image.png
 
I hope these information are better and you can got a complete picture. 🙂
Regards
Balazs"
 
=> By setting menue point 5. to the appropriate flash it should be possible to switch between 1st and 2nd curtain via the camera menue. I guess the operation of the strobe, whether manual or TTL, is then selected directly on the strobe...
 
=> Was somebody able to confirm that it works with A7R5 (i.e. selecting between 1st and 2nd curtain in manual (and TTL) flash mode during the dive via the camera menue?
 
Wolfgang
Edited by Architeuthis
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Posted (edited)

I just now had a videoconference with Balacz from Turtle and the problem is solved...

 

The problem was that one needs to turn "OFF" the Wireless Flash mode in the A7R5's menue (Exposure/Color>Flash>4. Wireless Flash "OFF"). This function was ON in my camera...

 

THEN one can select all different flash modes as listed above, also "Rear Sync" , from the A7R5's menue (Exposure/Color>Flash>1. Flash Mode "Rear Sync, Slow, etc..."

 

(I have now assigned the "C4" custom button to "Exposure/Color>Flash>1. Flash Mode", in order to be able to switch between 1st and 2nd curtain just during the dive and from the housing, without having to take the trigger out of the housing and setting the curtain sync via the laptop...)

 

 

 This is really great service by Turtle triggers, I only can recommend this company...👍

 

 

Wolfgang

Edited by Architeuthis
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  • The title was changed to Is switching between 1st and 2nd curtain sync -Sony A7R5 & s-Turtle2 Smart trigger possible mid-dive?
On 3/11/2024 at 4:06 PM, Architeuthis said:

I just now had a videoconference with Balacz from Turtle and the problem is solved...

 

The problem was that one needs to turn "OFF" the Wireless Flash mode in the A7R5's menue (Exposure/Color>Flash>4. Wireless Flash "OFF"). This function was ON in my camera...

 

THEN one can select all different flash modes as listed above, also "Rear Sync" , from the A7R5's menue (Exposure/Color>Flash>1. Flash Mode "Rear Sync, Slow, etc..."

 

(I have now assigned the "C4" custom button to "Exposure/Color>Flash>1. Flash Mode", in order to be able to switch between 1st and 2nd curtain just during the dive and from the housing, without having to take the trigger out of the housing and setting the curtain sync via the laptop...)

 

 

 This is really great service by Turtle triggers, I only can recommend this company...👍

 

 

Wolfgang

If your trigger is in TTL and wireless flash off the flash sync will have a hard stop at 1/200 if now you want to turn the strobes off you are still limited to 1/200

The benefit of rear sync manual is that the shutter will go above 1/200 and the strobes will simply stop firing this is useful as you cant set the flash to off once you have the trigger on

Edited by Interceptor121
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I am now on Providencia Island in Columbia and the story was more complicated as expected: I wasted two days of diving with strobes not working as they should...

 

The reason is that the switching between 1st and 2nd curtain via camera is only possible, when the trigger and flashes are set to TTL, i.e. The WL flash mode on Sony A7R5 is set to "ON". When the trigger is set to work manually, as I want it to be (A7R5 WL flash mode to "OFF"), the 1st and 2nd curtain can only be set via the software on the PC. I have both Nauticam and s-Turtle2 smart triggers here, so I set s-Turtle to 2nd curtain and will use Nauticam or s-Turtle, depending on what I want...

 

Balazs gave good advice during the entire process. He writes that the manual version of s-Turtle is able to switch 1st vs. 2nd curtain during the dive and he will exchange my trigger for the manual version, when I am once back...

 

Wolfgang

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18 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

I am now on Providencia Island in Columbia and the story was more complicated as expected: I wasted two days of diving with strobes not working as they should...

 

The reason is that the switching between 1st and 2nd curtain via camera is only possible, when the trigger and flashes are set to TTL, i.e. The WL flash mode on Sony A7R5 is set to "ON". When the trigger is set to work manually, as I want it to be (A7R5 WL flash mode to "OFF"), the 1st and 2nd curtain can only be set via the software on the PC. I have both Nauticam and s-Turtle2 smart triggers here, so I set s-Turtle to 2nd curtain and will use Nauticam or s-Turtle, depending on what I want...

 

Balazs gave good advice during the entire process. He writes that the manual version of s-Turtle is able to switch 1st vs. 2nd curtain during the dive and he will exchange my trigger for the manual version, when I am once back...

 

Wolfgang

Exactly what I was trying to communicate 

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20 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

Exactly what I was trying to communicate 

I rememeber you have the manual s-Turtle version. Can you confirm that it is possible with this version to switch between 1st and 2nd curtain via camera menue during the dive?

 

Wolfgang

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3 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

I rememeber you have the manual s-Turtle version. Can you confirm that it is possible with this version to switch between 1st and 2nd curtain via camera menue during the dive?

 

Wolfgang

Yes that’s why I got it

foe clarity the nauticam trigger doesn’t support rear curtain sync it fires always on first

Edited by Interceptor121
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  • 1 month later...

Just a final update to this issue from my side:

 

I have now received the manual version of the Sony s-Turtle trigger (in exchange for the TTL version). Balazs from Turtle was so kind to provide an extra LED unit, at no charge, as a spare.

=> I like the Turtle trigger as it is a compact unit (I think to have an extra LED unit, which looks a little fragile, as a spare is a good idea). Also the charging via USB-C is no problem, when once one is accoustumed to it.

 

=>Switching between 1st and 2nd curtain via the camera menue (A7R5) is now possible and can be done during the dive. Switching the flash trigger "OFF" is, unfortunately, still not possible. When I want the flashes off, I have to switch the units off manually by hand. Guess I can live with this...

 

Wolfgang

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1 hour ago, Architeuthis said:

Just a final update to this issue from my side:

 

I have now received the manual version of the Sony s-Turtle trigger (in exchange for the TTL version). Balazs from Turtle was so kind to provide an extra LED unit, at no charge, as a spare.

=> I like the Turtle trigger as it is a compact unit (I think to have an extra LED unit, which looks a little fragile, as a spare is a good idea). Also the charging via USB-C is no problem, when once one is accoustumed to it.

 

=>Switching between 1st and 2nd curtain via the camera menue (A7R5) is now possible and can be done during the dive. Switching the flash trigger "OFF" is, unfortunately, still not possible. When I want the flashes off, I have to switch the units off manually by hand. Guess I can live with this...

 

Wolfgang

Have you tried the HSS mode? It is activated with WL flash on.

My strobes work fine to any speed which is rather interesting

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19 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

Have you tried the HSS mode? It is activated with WL flash on.

My strobes work fine to any speed which is rather interesting

No, I did not test HSS mode. When I switch WL flash in A7R5 menue "ON", rear curtain is not possible to select any more and one has to set it via PC program...

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48 minutes ago, Architeuthis said:

No, I did not test HSS mode. When I switch WL flash in A7R5 menue "ON", rear curtain is not possible to select any more and one has to set it via PC program...

HSS is not rear curtain 

I have two triggers one older version and one new

They behave a bit differently one seems to go in HSS automatically

Edited by Interceptor121
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