A7RiV Nauticam Setup - sanity check

[hedonist222]

Considering a Nauticam housing for the Sony A7RV.

 

What all would I need if I intend to use it for macro only.

Assume I have the camera, 90mm Sony lens, SMC-1, and backscatter MF-1 flash and fiber optic cables.

I also have arms, floats, and clamps from my full frame Canon Aquatica housing that I can use.

 

I currently have listed:

1- Nauticam housing (NA-A7RV)

2- N100 macro port 105

3- M14 vacuum valve II

4- Turtle LED trigger (manual - no intention on using TTL - happy to be corrected or advised otherwise)

 

5- AOI Sea & Sea fiber optic connector - this came recommended by a seller - I don't understand the purpose 

If the Nauticam housing already has fiber optic cable ports and I have a fiber optic cable, then what purpose does this AOI connector serve?

 

6- M67 dual flip holder (for the SMC-1 and potentially the SMC-2 in the future)

 

Have I missed anything required?

Anything not necessary but nice to have? May as well consider these things now while I am placing the order and bracing for the pain that this will all cost...

Thank you!

[Phil Rudin]

Nauticam housings have a threaded fiber cord mount, not a push-in plug mount. So you need the NA-kit attached photo or the cap to plug your current cords into.

 

Also the standard Nauticam flash trigger for Sony cameras will fire your MF-1 strobes using fiber cords.

 

If you have an interest in other housing options you can find several.

 

Edited June 21 by Phil Rudin

[ChipBPhoto]

Hi @hedonist222 - congratulations!  I did this exact move last year.  You will see a huge improvement in your user experience, especially around the Sony 90 macro performance and AF abilities in general. 

 

4 hours ago, hedonist222 said:

I currently have listed:

1- Nauticam housing (NA-A7RV)

2- N100 macro port 105

3- M14 vacuum valve II

4- Turtle LED trigger (manual - no intention on using TTL - happy to be corrected or advised otherwise)

Your list is very comprehensive.  Well done!

 

The Turtle trigger works fine.  I use an UW Technics trigger, but basically the same idea.  The basic Nauticam manual trigger will also work, but it does not support HSS that you may want in the future.

 

The Nauticam housings have built-in threaded connection points for the fiber cable to screw on top of the housing.  Either the new Nauticam or Backscatter universal cables have the correct female connectors to attach to both the housing and MF-1. 
 

If you are going to focus on macro, many people find the Nauticam 45° 1:0.8 Viewfinder to be very useful.  This allows you to look down into the viewfinder so your rig can be more easily placed on the bottom for those great eye-to-eye pics of the smaller critters.  This can be added later if you choose.  

 

As a heads up, the SMC-1 is a terrific tool and makes incredibly high-quality images.  I use it with the flip holder and find it works well.  With that said, there is a steep learning curve to it due to the close distance to the subject required and thin focus plane.  I would suggest getting very comfortable with the Sony 90 alone before you add to your tool kit.  The SMC-2 is an entirely new level of extreme frustration due to its almost microscopically thin focus plane.  Most would agree the 45 degree viewfinder would be a more useful tool from day one. 

 

Best of luck with your new rig!

 

 

Edited June 21 by ChipBPhoto

[RVBldr]

For the diopters, you could consider the bayonet mount instead of the flip holder. They do swap out very quick and might get some of the bulk off the front of that port when not in use. Just a consideration. 

[humu9679]

2 hours ago, Phil Rudin said:

Nauticam housings have a threaded fiber cord mount, not a push-in plug mount. So you need the NA-kit attached photo or the cap to plug your current cords into.

 

Also the standard Nauticam flash trigger for Sony cameras will fire your MF-1 strobes using fiber cords.

 

If you have an interest in other housing options you can find several.

 

Pretty chintzy of Nauticam not to include the push in plug mount. And I forget what they charged for theirs, but it pissed me off further.

[humu9679]

I've had the Nauticam flash trigger, which in hindsight seems to be fine and easy to use. I've had the Turtle but recall that having a tiny charging port which was a bother. And now I use the UW Technics, which was a pain to install in the A7c housing, but a fairly low maintenance item with a long-lasting, easy-to-change battery with dodgy TTL (which was the reason I wanted to use it). I might go back to the Nauticam trigger, of which I have two.

[hedonist222]

3 hours ago, Phil Rudin said:

 

 

Also the standard Nauticam flash trigger for Sony cameras will fire your MF-1 strobes using fiber cords.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Phil. 

The basic Nauticam led trigger is fine but only allows up to 1/200 flash sync. The Sony camera natively syncs up to 1/250 - and the Turtle or UW Technics triggers offer this (and for not much more than the nauticam price).

[hedonist222]

3 hours ago, ChipBPhoto said:

Hi @hedonist222 - congratulations!  I did this exact move last year.  You will see a huge improvement in your user experience, especially around the Sony 90 macro performance and AF abilities in general. 

 

Your list is very comprehensive.  Well done!

 

The Turtle trigger works fine.  I use an UW Technics trigger, but basically the same idea.  The basic Nauticam manual trigger will also work, but it does not support HSS that you may want in the future.

 

The Nauticam housings have built-in threaded connection points for the fiber cable to screw on top of the housing.  Either the new Nauticam or Backscatter universal cables have the correct female connectors to attach to both the housing and MF-1. 
 

If you are going to focus on macro, many people find the Nauticam 45° 1:0.8 Viewfinder to be very useful.  This allows you to look down into the viewfinder so your rig can be more easily placed on the bottom for those great eye-to-eye pics of the smaller critters.  This can be added later if you choose.  

 

As a heads up, the SMC-1 is a terrific tool and makes incredibly high-quality images.  I use it with the flip holder and find it works well.  With that said, there is a steep learning curve to it due to the close distance to the subject required and thin focus plane.  I would suggest getting very comfortable with the Sony 90 alone before you add to your tool kit.  The SMC-2 is an entirely new level of extreme frustration due to its almost microscopically thin focus plane.  Most would agree the 45 degree viewfinder would be a more useful tool from day one. 

 

The only other consideration is floatation.  The rig as-is will be quite negative.  If you are only using a single MF-1 with an arm, at some point perhaps consider adding 2 additional ball mounts, clamps, and a flotation arm over the center of the housing to help relieve some of the negative buoyancy.  Otherwise, you will likely develop sore wrists from holding it on long dives.  You can certainly try it as-is to get a feel, but I’d suggest keeping this as an option as needed.

 

Best of luck with your new rig!
 

 

 

Hi Chip. 

Thanks!

 

The 45 degree angled view finder looks nice, but $1,7500?

I've just dropped a little over $11K but don't think seventeen hundred fifty is fair. Can live without.  For now... 🙂

 

Not new to underwater photography.

Currently using a Canon 5dmkii with a 100L lens in an Aquatica housing. I've been content with a single backscatter mf1.

 

The Canon is from 2009.

Decided to leap 15 years into the future with the Sony requisition.

 

I'm familiar with the Aquatica ecosystem. Unfamiliar with the Nauticam ecosystem and hence this thread.

 

I'm very very familiar with the SMC-1.

And also enjoy using it very much, hence considering the smc-2 as I've reached the SMC-1 limit on a few occasions now. 

 

Thanks for the buoyancy tip. 

I have the exact setup on my 5dmkii & Aquatica. In addition to the mf1 with a floatation tube,  I use a back scatter mw4300 video light with floatation. 

 

It's slightly negatively buoyant & that's my preference. 

[hedonist222]

2 hours ago, RVBldr said:

For the diopters, you could consider the bayonet mount instead of the flip holder. They do swap out very quick and might get some of the bulk off the front of that port when not in use. Just a consideration. 

 

Any video or photos on how a bayonet system works or is different from the clamp-on flip holder mount? 

I couldn't visualize the difference. 

[Phil Rudin]

1 hour ago, hedonist222 said:

 

Thanks, Phil. 

The basic Nauticam led trigger is fine but only allows up to 1/200 flash sync. The Sony camera natively syncs up to 1/250 - and the Turtle or UW Technics triggers offer this (and for not much more than the nauticam price).

I used the Nauticam trigger in a Nauticam A1 housing and it synced to 1/400th in full frame and 1/500th in APS-C. I now have the Marelux housings for both A7R V and A1 and both work with the standard Marelux flash trigger at A7R V 1/250th and A1 1/400th in full frame. I changed out the A7R V trigger for the UW Technics trigger when I started using HSS and MTL shot with  the UWT, works great for these functions. I have the TTL trigger but I am not a TTL user with my MF-2 and Apollo III strobes.

 

The bayonet adapter is two parts, the SMC-1/2 CMC-1/2 thread into the ring then bayonet to the mount that threaded to the 67mm port threads. The blue thing is the lock that holds the ring in place and then is used to remove the lens when you are not using it. The down side is that you need a place for the lens while it is not mounted where the flip just holds it out of the way.

 

Edited June 21 by Phil Rudin

[Architeuthis]

Concerning 105mm macroport: I purchased the 105 macroport and regret it. I wished I would have gone for 55mm macroport plus a 20mm and a 30mm extension - more expensive at the beginning, but this makes one much more flexible, when one wants to use/test other lenses than the Sony 90mm macro...

 

Another vote for the 45° viewfinder. It is extremely useful and in addition spares the neck muscles. I cannot imagine to give it away...

 

Wolfgang

[hedonist222]

10 hours ago, Phil Rudin said:

I used the Nauticam trigger in a Nauticam A1 housing and it synced to 1/400th in full frame and 1/500th in APS-C. I now have the Marelux housings for both A7R V and A1 and both work with the standard Marelux flash trigger at A7R V 1/250th and A1 1/400th in full frame. I changed out the A7R V trigger for the UW Technics trigger when I started using HSS and MTL shot with  the UWT, works great for these functions. I have the TTL trigger but I am not a TTL user with my MF-2 and Apollo III strobes.

 

The bayonet adapter is two parts, the SMC-1/2 CMC-1/2 thread into the ring then bayonet to the mount that threaded to the 67mm port threads. The blue thing is the lock that holds the ring in place and then is used to remove the lens when you are not using it. The down side is that you need a place for the lens while it is not mounted where the flip just holds it out of the way.

 

 

 

 

Very helpful. Thank you.

 

 

1 hour ago, Architeuthis said:

Concerning 105mm macroport: I purchased the 105 macroport and regret it. I wished I would have gone for 55mm macroport plus a 20mm and a 30mm extension - more expensive at the beginning, but this makes one much more flexible, when one wants to use/test other lenses than the Sony 90mm macro...

 

Another vote for the 45° viewfinder. It is extremely useful and in addition spares the neck muscles. I cannot imagine to give it away...

 

Wolfgang

 

Thanks Wolfgang, but are you not apprehensive that using different size/dimension ports will affect the the image?

I ask because my (highly elementary) understanding of ports is that the front element (glass) of the port must be at a certain distance from the front of the lens and a certain distance from the sensor itself (that knot circle with a strike though symbol on the camera body itself - indicating exactly where the sensor plane is located). 

 

Therefore manufacturers develop the ideal port for a particular lens.

 

I am not saying your suggested combination is incorrect - I am asking how you are able to determine this with your combination.

Edited June 22 by hedonist222

[Architeuthis]

1 hour ago, hedonist222 said:

 

Very helpful. Thank you.

 

 

 

Thanks Wolfgang, but are you not apprehensive that using different size/dimension ports will affect the the image?

I ask because my (highly elementary) understanding of ports is that the front element (glass) of the port must be at a certain distance from the front of the lens and a certain distance from the sensor itself (that knot circle with a strike though symbol on the camera body itself - indicating exactly where the sensor plane is located). 

 

Therefore manufacturers develop the ideal port for a particular lens.

 

I am not saying your suggested combination is incorrect - I am asking how you are able to determine this with your combination.

 => Exact: the planport should be at the sortest distance from the front of the lens. This is provided by the 105mm planport. The same you get with 55m planport plus 20mm and 30mm extension (55+30+20=105), but when using shorter lens you can make the port smaller by omitting extensions...

[fruehaufsteher2]

I didn’t see the focus gear for the 90mm Macro in the list. 

 

But in fact - you don‘t need it. It can help pre-focusing and support the AF or going manually.

 

[hedonist222]

55 minutes ago, Architeuthis said:

 => Exact: the planport should be at the sortest distance from the front of the lens. This is provided by the 105mm planport. The same you get with 55m planport plus 20mm and 30mm extension (55+30+20=105), but when using shorter lens you can make the port smaller by omitting extensions...

 

Ah, makes sense. The pro is lens flexibility, the con is (two) added (potential)  failure points. 

I'm not schooling you with this sentence. I'm adding it for the benefit of other readers who may not be aware of the con. 

 

9 minutes ago, fruehaufsteher2 said:

I didn’t see the focus gear for the 90mm Macro in the list. 

 

But in fact - you don‘t need it. It can help pre-focusing and support the AF or going manually.

 

 

I'm considering it. 

But must I set the lens to manual?  Thus precluding me from using auto focus? 

If so,  then deal breaker. 

I'll explain why. 

 

Sometimes the subject is so small that I want to say focus to the maximum nearest (the minimum focusing distance). 

Right now, without a manual focus ring, I zoom till it stops and hope that it stopped because it's determined that it's the closest focus. 

I'd like to be able to fine tune focusing. 

[Architeuthis]

I have the focus gear for Sony 90mm (A7R5). I find it helpful, as Fruehaufsteher2 says for pre-focusing (especially with SMC-1)...

[hedonist222]

2 hours ago, hedonist222 said:

 

Ah, makes sense. The pro is lens flexibility, the con is (two) added (potential)  failure points. 

I'm not schooling you with this sentence. I'm adding it for the benefit of other readers who may not be aware of the con. 

 

 

I'm considering it. 

But must I set the lens to manual?  Thus precluding me from using auto focus? 

If so,  then deal breaker. 

I'll explain why. 

 

Sometimes the subject is so small that I want to say focus to the maximum nearest (the minimum focusing distance). 

Right now, without a manual focus ring, I zoom till it stops and hope that it stopped because it's determined that it's the closest focus. 

I'd like to be able to fine tune focusing. 

 

It appears that I am able to combine an AF and MF focus scenario. 

The camera defaults to MF, however one of the custom buttons (or AF On button?) can be set to (temporary) AF when pressed. This helps if you simply need AF or if you want to swiftly focus using AF then, when button is released,  you return to MF. Then use the DMF (direct manual focus) function to manually fine tune focus. 

 

My question is,  and pardon if this is common knowledge (just moved over to Sony from a 15 year old Canon), can I use manually fine tune focus using buttons on the body? This can be done on an Olympus TG-6 (yes, realize it's a point and shoot). If I can manually fine fine using buttons, then I don't need a manual focus ring partfrom Nauticam.

 

I am intentionally elaborating my responses with the aim of providing elaborate to other newcomers like me in the future. 

Edited June 22 by hedonist222

[Phil Rudin]

I have owned my Sony FE 90mm macro since my first Sony A7 II and at that time I could not get along without a manual focus gear. While I still own a manual focus gear I have found with the Sony A1 and Sony A7R V that I rarely if ever use it because the auto focus is just that good if setup correctly. If cost is an issue this is the item that would be at the bottom of my list and can be added at a later time.

 

AF does not get you all the way to 1:1 with any macro lens. If I intend to look for subjects where I need a closeup lens, be it +10, +15 or beyond then I simply turn off AF and set the lens to 1:1 before I install it in the housing. For me I see no need to use the C/U lens until I am at 1:1 because I see no upside. when I want to go beyond 1:1 I simply flip in whatever C/U lens I am using and focus by rocking the camera in and out until I achieve sharp focus. If I decide I want to go bigger I can always engage AF in the menu. 

[hedonist222]

26 minutes ago, Phil Rudin said:

I have owned my Sony FE 90mm macro since my first Sony A7 II and at that time I could not get along without a manual focus gear. While I still own a manual focus gear I have found with the Sony A1 and Sony A7R V that I rarely if ever use it because the auto focus is just that good if setup correctly. If cost is an issue this is the item that would be at the bottom of my list and can be added at a later time.

 

AF does not get you all the way to 1:1 with any macro lens. If I intend to look for subjects where I need a closeup lens, be it +10, +15 or beyond then I simply turn off AF and set the lens to 1:1 before I install it in the housing. For me I see no need to use the C/U lens until I am at 1:1 because I see no upside. when I want to go beyond 1:1 I simply flip in whatever C/U lens I am using and focus by rocking the camera in and out until I achieve sharp focus. If I decide I want to go bigger I can always engage AF in the menu. 

 

Hi Phil, 

Thanks for your usual helpful and insightful responses.

 

While I don't doubt the A7rv focus speed and accuracy (but unimpressed because my fifteen year old Canon is faster at aim and focus) I want manual focus for artistically curated compositions. 

 

The majority of my subjects are both miniscule and skittish which means I remain at the mercy of where the camera thinks that 2x2 mm spot is a good focus area, followed by me rapidly exhaling (and most times at the most inopportune point in the the rhythmic cycle) and swaying forwards and backwards to correct the plane of focus.

 

 

Edited June 22 by hedonist222

[ChrisH]

Another vote for the external viewfinder from me 😉 Especially if you shoot a lot of macro, you might find it is one of the best tools you ever bought!

 

I have seen a lot of people buy one, and none of them would give it away. The angled viewfinder takes some dives to get used to, but once you have been through the initial frustration in using it, you might find yourself wondering how/why you have been shooting without it before. I know they are expensive and seem at first not to add that much benefit, rather than being a "nice-to-have" piece. But they will outlast a lot of camera/housing upgrades in the future and it is a really essential piece of gear in my opinion. Even more so know with the EVFs and their ability to let you review the pictures in the EVF and see critical focus for the macro shots or the focus peaking feature. It upgrades the whole setup more than the cost of it (10%?).

[hedonist222]

3 hours ago, ChrisH said:

Another vote for the external viewfinder from me 😉 Especially if you shoot a lot of macro, you might find it is one of the best tools you ever bought!

 

I have seen a lot of people buy one, and none of them would give it away. The angled viewfinder takes some dives to get used to, but once you have been through the initial frustration in using it, you might find yourself wondering how/why you have been shooting without it before. I know they are expensive and seem at first not to add that much benefit, rather than being a "nice-to-have" piece. But they will outlast a lot of camera/housing upgrades in the future and it is a really essential piece of gear in my opinion. Even more so know with the EVFs and their ability to let you review the pictures in the EVF and see critical focus for the macro shots or the focus peaking feature. It upgrades the whole setup more than the cost of it (10%?).

 

Go away, Chris. Don't do this to me haha. 😵‍💫😥😁

[ChrisH]

4 minutes ago, hedonist222 said:

 

Go away, Chris. Don't do this to me haha. 😵‍💫😥😁

Haha, you‘re welcome 😬

 

Just let me know if you need more „help“ with spending money on underwater photography equipment, you can always count on me! 🥳