Strobes Light Quality

[bvanant]

I hear the term "quality of light" all the time with particular emphasis on "wide beam" and "good color temperature".

 

Does anyone have a real world example of similar subjects with "crappy" light and with "good" light.  I suspect a bit of this is very subjective, and a bit of "I spent a lot of money so the light must be good".  We just got off a Komodo trip where a friend had 2 of the new Backscatter Hybrids on a Z9, and I was shooting with 2 smaller strobes on an OM-1.  Looking at pics during a slide show it was not obvious which shots were from which setup; we shot a lot of the same stuff.  

A couple of illustrations of good vs not so good light would be helpful (to me at least)

Bill 

[Jerry Diver]

You may find some examples by scrolling through this thread, although it’s not as straightforward as a simple ‘sponge ad’ comparison. Photography is a subtle art, and several photographers here have switched from one strobe to another. They reported that achieving a good shot was easier with strobes that offered higher light quality, mainly due to a more even light spread and consistent color temperature.

[Dave_Hicks]

1 hour ago, Jerry Diver said:

You may find some examples by scrolling through this thread, although it’s not as straightforward as a simple ‘sponge ad’ comparison. Photography is a subtle art, and several photographers here have switched from one strobe to another. They reported that achieving a good shot was easier with strobes that offered higher light quality, mainly due to a more even light spread and consistent color temperature.

 

Placebo Effect. A strobe that works reliably, has sufficient battery life, power, and the sync speed you require is as good as any other. I think "quality of light" is feeling not a feature.

 

Many people are putting a filter on their strobes, at which point the light spread is near identical to every other strobe and the light temperature is defined by the filter not the strobe.

[Jerry Diver]

I see your point. Reliability, battery life, power, and sync speed are all very important. However, light quality, like even light spread and consistent color, can still make a real difference, especially for those who need those finer details to be just right.

 

Filters help a fair bit, but they can’t absolutely compensate for uneven or inconsistent base light. Many photographers who have switched strobes find that better light quality means spending less time on adjustments in Lightroom or during the shoot itself. All this talk of ‘quality of light’ may seem subjective, but it often reflects subtle yet meaningful differences that improve workflow and results.

[Dave_Hicks]

40 minutes ago, Jerry Diver said:

I see your point. Reliability, battery life, power, and sync speed are all very important. However, light quality, like even light spread and consistent color, can still make a real difference, especially for those who need those finer details to be just right.

 

Filters help a fair bit, but they can’t absolutely compensate for uneven or inconsistent base light. Many photographers who have switched strobes find that better light quality means spending less time on adjustments in Lightroom or during the shoot itself. All this talk of ‘quality of light’ may seem subjective, but it often reflects subtle yet meaningful differences that improve workflow and results.

Even light spread is only important if you are shooting flat white walls in a dark room. I challenge anyone to identify an even vs uneven light source in an actual underwater environment. The truth is that most strobes (a similar power levels) are pretty similar.

 

What makes a real difference is how the photographer uses their equipment and composes an interesting subject.

[fruehaufsteher2]

1 hour ago, Dave_Hicks said:

Even light spread is only important if you are shooting flat white walls in a dark room. I challenge anyone to identify an even vs uneven light source in an actual underwater environment. The truth is that most strobes (a similar power levels) are pretty similar.

 

What makes a real difference is how the photographer uses their equipment and composes an interesting subject.

I can’t support this opinion. I switched from a reliable flash with straight tube - I used it always with diffuser. 
Switching to the Retra is like using a softbox (as you do in normal photography). 

[Davide DB]

Guys, after countless tests, comparisons and heated discussions, you can't tell me it was all a bad dream 🤣

 

Edit: I will split these messages in a new discussion. 

 

[CaolIla]

I changed from 2 inon s2000 to 2 retro pro 2 years ago...   


Euhhhh it's change more or less all 

The pictures quality make a jump.   

I'm really happy with my retra... but today the price is much more higher as to years ago. For sure If one break I probably don't buy retra again... but buy something btter/stronger as the s2000.


or not sure....  I've now snoot for retra protection for retra etc etc..... but for the moment my 2 retra are working well and I hope it will be the case for the next years ( 2 , 3 4 or more ???    )

Next trip  end of the week, 3 weeks Philippines with a lot of pictures...  The flash will probably shoot 4k or more times 

 

[Andrej Oblak]

8 hours ago, Dave_Hicks said:

I challenge anyone to identify an even vs uneven light source in an actual underwater environment.

 

With Inon Z-330 I was often dealing with shadows in the middle of the frame, with strobes positioned in a classic 10-2 position for horizontal shots or 12-6 for vertical shots. Diffusers were on by default. With Retras (no diffusers), which have arguably better and more even spread of light, I never had to deal with this issue. Same strobe positions, as I've used with Inons, usually just work in the first shot, so I can focus more on creative strobe positioning and individual strobe powers, without worrying about technical issues (unwanted shadows). I did, however, still manage to get images without a shadow in the center even with Inons, it just took some more careful repositioning of individual strobes. So in my opinion, it is possible to see this unevenness, but usually when you're still underwater and taking photos. But a bit more difficult in the final image, where the photographer already selects the image with best lighting.

[Dave_Hicks]

25 minutes ago, Andrej Oblak said:

 

With Inon Z-330 I was often dealing with shadows in the middle of the frame, with strobes positioned in a classic 10-2 position for horizontal shots or 12-6 for vertical shots. Diffusers were on by default. With Retras (no diffusers), which have arguably better and more even spread of light, I never had to deal with this issue. Same strobe positions, as I've used with Inons, usually just work in the first shot, so I can focus more on creative strobe positioning and individual strobe powers, without worrying about technical issues (unwanted shadows). I did, however, still manage to get images without a shadow in the center even with Inons, it just took some more careful repositioning of individual strobes. So in my opinion, it is possible to see this unevenness, but usually when you're still underwater and taking photos. But a bit more difficult in the final image, where the photographer already selects the image with best lighting.

I never used diffusers on my Inon-330s and did not have that issue.

 

I also rarely shoot in "10-2" strobe positions as I find that tends to yield flat images with little shadow or texture on the subject.

 

[Andrej Oblak]

33 minutes ago, Dave_Hicks said:

I never used diffusers on my Inon-330s and did not have that issue.

 

I also rarely shoot in "10-2" strobe positions as I find that tends to yield flat images with little shadow or texture on the subject.

 

Great, happy for you!

[Architeuthis]

I cannot tell about the Retras, but I can compare Z330 against HF-1...

 

Already after one two week diving holiday, I can say that with HF-1 (with 4500K flat diffusers) the color of the sea needs little correction in most cases (WA with 180° fisheye and WACP-C with 130° and less; combination of both flash and natural light). With Z330, I had to adjust this color much more, not seldom using masks in LR.

Also the susceptibility to backscatter seems to be less with HF-1 (I guess the flat diffusers have a narrower beam angle compared to the Z330 with the built in dome diffusers, but cannot say exactly, it is just a subjective impression)...

 

I did not recognize a difference in evenness or softness of the light distribution. Not seldom I get a darker area in the middle (no matter wich flashes), but the reason is that I did not position the strobes correctly (usually I use "9-3", "10-2" up to "semi-rabbit ear (also something like 3-9, but on elongated arms", depending on motif (depending on how far I want to reach the flashlight and also how reflective the bottom is)) - in my case it happens when the strobes are too far out for the distance of the subject...

 

 

Wolfgang

Edited November 11 by Architeuthis

[ChipBPhoto]

6 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

I cannot tell about the Retras, but I can compare Z330 against HF-1...

 

Already after one two week diving holiday, I can say that with HF-1 (with 4500K flat diffusers) the color of the sea needs little correction in most cases (WA with 180° fisheye and WACP-C with 130° and less; combination of both flash and natural light). With Z330, I had to adjust this color much more, not seldom using masks in LR.

Also the susceptibility to backscatter seems to be less with HF-1 (I guess the flat diffusers have a narrower beam angle compared to the Z330 with the built in dome diffusers, but cannot say exactly, it is just a subjective impression)...

 

I did not recognize a difference in evenness or softness of the light distribution. Not seldom I get a darker area in the middle (no matter wich flashes), but the reason is that I did not position the strobes correctly (usually I use "9-3", "10-2" up to "semi-rabbit ear (also something like 3-9, but on elongated arms", depending on motif (depending on how far I want to reach the flashlight and also how reflective the bottom is)) - in my case it happens when the strobes are too far out for the distance of the subject...

 

 

Wolfgang

Thanks for the feedback, Wolfgang.  Any regrets making the switch to the HF-1s?  
 

I’m still not thrilled about the 21700 batteries or the heavier weight, but they seem to be the “best buy” among the strobes on the market today.  The video light seems like it could add additional value for the occasional usage.  

 

[Architeuthis]

8 hours ago, ChipBPhoto said:

Thanks for the feedback, Wolfgang.  Any regrets making the switch to the HF-1s?  
 

I’m still not thrilled about the 21700 batteries or the heavier weight, but they seem to be the “best buy” among the strobes on the market today.  The video light seems like it could add additional value for the occasional usage.  

 

 

The heavier weight, or better the negative buoyancy, was only a problem on the first dive: I had the floats mounted the same way as I had for the relatively neutral Z330, i.e. most floats on the inner arm, to have buoyancy close to the center of gravity. The result was a rig with strong torque, because of the backwards positioned HF-1s that pulled the rig down. Now I put the floats more on the outer arm and I do not recognize any more that they are heavier than the Z330s...

 

Regarding the Li+ batteries, It is much better to travel with 8 batteries, sufficient for two HF-1 and one MF-2, compared to the 16 NiMh batteries plus two 21700, previously for two Z330s plus HF-2. Li+ is certainly the future. I find the negative and anxious feelings of some people too innovation skeptical and also a little bit ambiguous. There are so many Li+ batteries on board of aeroplanes (and also diving vessels) already now, because of handys and computers. The minority of Li+ batteries is from divers, is it video lights or diving torches, where Li+ batteries are already the standard. Now come some additional Li+ batteries from UW flashes - so what?

Regarding airline restrictions, the 21700 need to be carried as carry-on luggage, not as check-in luggage, up to 20 are allowed. The restrictions start at 100 Wh capacity (2 allowed) and at > 160 Wh the real problems start, see e.g. here: https://www.iata.org/contentassets/6fea26dd84d24b26a7a1fd5788561d6e/passenger-lithium-battery.pdf

 

=> In summary, no regrets so far (Tomorrow, November 13rd, I will take off for the next dive trip  😋(Tansania, Mafia island))...

 

The HF-1s are a substantial upgrade compared to the Z330s, regarding color temperature and power. Light distribution is very good according to my experiences, but see Alex Mustards review on HF-1 (He writes the HF-1 belongs to the best UW flashes available and he likes them a lot, but the Retras provide more even and softer light distribution and hence, are even better)...

 

 

 

Wolfgang

 

 

 

Edited November 12 by Architeuthis