First of all, sorry if this question already got asked here but I did a quick check and I didn't seem to be too many people were in my exact shoes.. 

 

I do mostly macro, photo only and travel with the camera setup to SE Asia. So far, my diving buddy has used one or two torches and I've been using the camera (so currently no strobes). I've been using the Olympus TG-4 with an underwater housing to do macro photography and been quite happy with it overall, however, it needs so much light to produce good picture quality so I'm thinking about upgrading. What's the "step up" from those TG-models? I've been thinking about Canon R50/R100 as some people write about them, but I'm hesitating as I worry that it will significantly more cumbersome, pricier (esp. if I choose to add a strobe or sth similar) and that it'll weigh a lot more. Are these concerns perfectly valid or a bit exaggerated?

Also noticed the Olympus E-M10 but can't see if it would be a better choice than R50/R100.

Would an upgrade to a TG-7 suffice? Wouldn't it have pretty much the same low light difficulties as the TG-4?

Or is there a good middle road between the Olympus Tough and Canon R50/100?

 

ps. I threw out this question on reddit but realised that people here on waterpixels seem really knowledgeable about cameras for uw photo..

Edited January 7Jan 7 by Nicholas Seaman
clarification

7 hours ago, Nicholas Seaman said:

First of all, sorry if this question already got asked here but I did a quick check and I didn't seem to be too many people were in my exact shoes.. 

 

I do mostly macro, photo only and travel with the camera setup to SE Asia. So far, my diving buddy has used one or two torches and I've been using the camera (so currently no strobes). I've been using the Olympus TG-4 with an underwater housing to do macro photography and been quite happy with it overall, however, it needs so much light to produce good picture quality so I'm thinking about upgrading. What's the "step up" from those TG-models? I've been thinking about Canon R50/R100 as some people write about them, but I'm hesitating as I worry that it will significantly more cumbersome, pricier (esp. if I choose to add a strobe or sth similar) and that it'll weigh a lot more. Are these concerns perfectly valid or a bit exaggerated?

Also noticed the Olympus E-M10 but can't see if it would be a better choice than R50/R100.

Would an upgrade to a TG-7 suffice? Wouldn't it have pretty much the same low light difficulties as the TG-4?

Or is there a good middle road between the Olympus Tough and Canon R50/100?

 

ps. I threw out this question on reddit but realised that people here on waterpixels seem really knowledgeable about cameras for uw photo..

 

The step up from the TG models is a cliff. Bring a parachute. I've heard that the R50 is quite good - its size and focusing ability, plus with Canon's renown color science. But when you add strobes, everything gets bigger and bulkier, including the TG series (which I quite like). You might consider strobes such as the Inon S-220 and Backscatter MF-2 (TTL exposure with Olympus) both of which have smaller footprints. One strobe for a smaller footprint, and two if you want to be like everybody else. One flash can make some nice photos, however.

Since you have mentioned traveling - the Canon is APS-C format and hence the lenses will be a larger than micro 4/3 (EM-10). This makes the entire setup a bit larger on the port side. For the EM10, AOI has a polycarbonate housing which is compact and probably of decent quality (the AOI is maybe easier to get from within Europe than the backscatter octo design). This will be easier to pack & travel - whether the EM10 is as capable a camera I don‘t know. 

I have a Nikon D-3300 APSC SLR and an Olympus EPL-5 MFT. Honestly, with images printed up to 80x60 cm (or 90 x 60) I don‘t see a difference in quality with top-side pictures. This is old gear and I only take the MFT under water, but my guess is that autofocus is more important to worry about than image quality. Perhaps you can test these on dry land by lending them from a shop for a day or two?

 

Lighting with torches can work well for macro, that’s how I started as well. But strobes will probably bring out significantly better quality from the TG4- sensor. Maybe you should start simply with e.g. an MF2 strobe added to your TG4? The strobe will be useful with any camera afterwards.

 

I can attest to the utility of the AOI housings. Mine for the OM-1 has been on 500+ dives and works flawlessly.

 

Bill

I also suggest the first step would be a small strobe like the Inon S-220 or used Inon S2000. 

 

Stepping up, a later TG model would have advantages, but best with decent lighting, so no loss in getting the strobe first. If you get more into wide angle , a big improvement on the TG cameras for wide angle also comes from using a wide angle wet lens to get to 130 degree field of view.

 

After that, it is difficult to get a system that is as versatile as the TG for both wide angle and macro on the same dive. The Canon R50 in Nauticam is really interesting and possibly the best aluminium-housed enthusiast system, but you need the Nauticam wet lenses WWL-1B for wide angle and CMC close-up lenses to complete the system as the port is not interchangeable. Even then changing lenses mid-dive is not great in practice, especially swapping out a large and expensive wide angle lenses and carrying it whilst a macro wet lens is on the housing. This system would lbe really underutilised without strobes

 

There is still an advantage to micro four thirds in the small lenses that are lower cost and readily available used, especially the Olympus 60mm macro. Olympus (OM System) OMD EM 10 iv in AOI housing, the OM1  in multiple brands of housing including AOI, or a used OMD EM1 mark ii or iii if you can find one. You could also use an Olympus with wet lenses (to swap mid dive from wide to macro) but also, if you don't mind committing to wide angle or macro beforehand, and since you say you are mainly interested in macro, Olympus with a dedicated macro lens sounds good.

 

 

 

 

So as humu8679 wrote ... the step up from the TG is a huge step. You definitely need to prepare for it, not only financially but mentally and you also need to consider everything in terms of ergonomics and physical dimensions. It's totally different to carry a pack of cigarettes (aka TG) that has everything build in or a "proper" UW setup ("proper" being hyperbole). I have a TG-6 at home myself and it's a camera with an unbeatable price vs UW performance ratio. Relatively it looks great with the TG but of course in absolute comparison (e.g. IQ and performance) today the TG drops significantly to the bottom of the charts.

I definitely recommend getting one or two strobes as a first step, ideally something small and cheap. I.e. get a Backscatter MF-2 for example, which will complement a TG based setup perfectly. You can also use these flashes in the future with another camera. If in the future you find yourself no longer comfortable with two strobes on long arms, then you know that it doesn't make sense for you to go the route of "proper" UW setup. Many of my friends ended up this way and diving with a large photographic setup does not suit everyone. Then you simply sell the flash and you haven't lost a significant investment.

If all goes well add a WWL-C or WWL-1 to the kit (e.g. instead of FCON-T01/T02). If all goes well after that, you are ready for a significant investment in a "proper" kit. The next step may then be to decide whether you want to go the MFT route (primarily ergonomics and good IQ) or the FF route (primarily IQ).

Please note: The path between MFT and FF does not differ much in price. If you choose the MFT path, then for good IQ you have to go with the excellent optics and then only then does MFT make some sense even today compared to average FF underwater.

Hi Nicholas,

 

Thanks for posting and please don't apologise, it's lovely to see another TG user here on Waterpixels.

 

So I've always shot solely with compacts since I flooded my first and only d-SLR years ago and have also used both the Olympus TG4 and TG6 shooting with natural light as well as with external lights and strobes.  Both will work in Microscope Mode using Natural Light, as long as there's a lot of it.  Using a Torch Light will help to create a sharper, far more colourful image and work best with still subjects like nudibranchs.

 

If you are capturing smaller macro subjects which are moving, then an external strobe is definitely the way to go as it will freeze the light so much faster than a torch, therefore helping you to capture a much sharper image.

 

There are a few strobes out there which will all do a great job. 

 

• Backscatter's popular Mini Flash 2 which is aimed solely for Macro Images plus a built-in 1000 lumen focus light and you can add extra colour filters, plus a snoot to get super creative with your close-up photography.   It also works remotely.
• INON's S220 which will give you the flexibility to shoot incredible close-ups as well as wide-angle imagery if you decide to add on a wide-angle lens in the future.  It delivers a beam angle of 140 degrees with it's dome diffuser.
• Sea & Sea's YS-01 or D3.  The YS-01 will give you 100 degrees of light with or without a diffuser and the D3 will give you a whopping 150 degree lighting capability using it's dome diffuser, a total bonus if you decide on a wider-angled lens in the future.
• A01 Q1 RC Ultra Compact Underwater Strobe (you can also add an AO1 Snoot to this strobe) to give you an 85 degree lighting coverage with the diffuser
• Backscatter's Hybrid Flash which is more expensive but it has a built-in 5,000 lumen video light with Spot, Wide and Red Options, both flat and dome diffusers offering from 120 degree to 160 degree covering and selectable colour temperatures by using different filters.  It also has a wireless off-camera remote control option and is a real game-changer in the underwater world of lighting.

I could go on forever, as I absolutely love all the different kinds of compact cameras and accessories which can be used with them, so I'll finish here and attach an image taken with an Olympus TG4 of a friendly Tompot Blenny captured at Swanage Pier, UK with my INON S-2000 strobe.  Hopefully this will help you see the incredible detail that even just one small close-up strobe can bring out.

 

Personally I haven't seen so much difference between the Oly TG-4 to the 6/7 to make an upgrade.  I'd personally choose a light first.  But it all depends on what avenues of underwater photography you'd like to explore.

 

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask away.  Always happy to help 🙂

 

Good luck with the decision making.

I've been thinking a lot about this the past couple of days but ultimately decided to get a strobe, even if I pretty much only take pictures of very slow moving critters..

The MF-2 seemed to be one most often recommended but I couldn't really find it used in the EU (I wish ebay worked well here but it's almost all about US, Japan, UK..). Instead, I bought a YS-01 for a decent price. Looking forward to trying it out on the next trip! Also got a tray, trigger etc.

 

I might be able to get a good price for a used old sony a6000 with underwater housing, but then I'd have to purchase a proper lens and thread/port for macro (as I believe the current owner have done wide angle photography only), so it might still be a bit costly in the end. Also, it wasn't clear to me if it would get close to E-M10/R100/R50 image quality. Any ideas?

 

In any case, thanks everyone for all the help you've provided!

On 1/8/2025 at 10:46 PM, jkepic said:

Please note: The path between MFT and FF does not differ much in price. If you choose the MFT path, then for good IQ you have to go with the excellent optics and then only then does MFT make some sense even today compared to average FF underwater.

I must disagree with this statement, if you are looking at Nauticam housings for example the price of the housing for a full frame Z8 is near enough double that of an OM-1 (m43).  Domes are generally smaller cheaper and easier to travel with and the lenses can be around half the price depending on the model and are significantly smaller.  If you are shooting wide angle because you are shooting at f8 on m43 rather than f11-16 on FF you can use less powerful strobes which can be lighter and cheaper as well.  Plus wit h APS-C you can use a Tokina 10-17 and m43 the Canon 8-15 for a very flexible zoom setup that just is not available on FF unless you go with the very expensive FCP port.

These were taking with tg5 and no strobes on microscope mode if i remember correctly

Lovely

Bill

Nicholas - Good move getting a strobe.  You’ll be amazed with the results compared to available light.  The problem you’re solving is not the “low light” sensitivity of the sensor, it is the changing light spectrum at depth.  No amount of sensitivity can make up for the absence of red below about 10m, followed by yellow then green as you go deeper.  Sure, you can use white balance adjustments but getting the colors right when capturing the image makes all the difference.  

On 1/13/2025 at 11:50 PM, Nicholas Seaman said:

I've been thinking a lot about this the past couple of days but ultimately decided to get a strobe, even if I pretty much only take pictures of very slow moving critters..

The MF-2 seemed to be one most often recommended but I couldn't really find it used in the EU (I wish ebay worked well here but it's almost all about US, Japan, UK..). Instead, I bought a YS-01 for a decent price. Looking forward to trying it out on the next trip! Also got a tray, trigger etc.

 

I might be able to get a good price for a used old sony a6000 with underwater housing, but then I'd have to purchase a proper lens and thread/port for macro (as I believe the current owner have done wide angle photography only), so it might still be a bit costly in the end. Also, it wasn't clear to me if it would get close to E-M10/R100/R50 image quality. Any ideas?

 

In any case, thanks everyone for all the help you've provided!

The Sony A6000 is APS-C and you would need a macro lens to go with it, either the 90mm which is big and expensive or the Zeiss 50mm which is a little slow on AF.  It's a fairly old camera now, but would produce decent image quality close to the cameras you mention.  As I recall the AF is quite a bit better on newer models of the A series cameras.

On 1/13/2025 at 2:50 AM, Nicholas Seaman said:

I've been thinking a lot about this the past couple of days but ultimately decided to get a strobe, even if I pretty much only take pictures of very slow moving critters..

The MF-2 seemed to be one most often recommended but I couldn't really find it used in the EU (I wish ebay worked well here but it's almost all about US, Japan, UK..). Instead, I bought a YS-01 for a decent price. Looking forward to trying it out on the next trip! Also got a tray, trigger etc.

 

I might be able to get a good price for a used old sony a6000 with underwater housing, but then I'd have to purchase a proper lens and thread/port for macro (as I believe the current owner have done wide angle photography only), so it might still be a bit costly in the end. Also, it wasn't clear to me if it would get close to E-M10/R100/R50 image quality. Any ideas?

 

In any case, thanks everyone for all the help you've provided!

 

You'll find one strobe will make a big difference in your photos. The TG system hasn't changed much from the TG-4 to the 7. I wish OM System would come up with a real new and improved version, with a bigger sensor and better manual control. It's an excellent system as is, but we can always wish for more.

 

The Sony A6000 is older but still usable. I have one and use it but it doesn't compare to the focusing capability of newer Sonys. I also have a Sony A7c. If I had to choose between the TG system, the Sony A6000 and the Olympus E-M1 or newer - and could only use one - I would go back to the Olympus mirrorless. They're small, light, great ergonomics, wonderful lenses, and cheaper to put in a housing.

 

Good luck!