Dual Strobes with YS-D2 and Backscatter Hybrid?

[hsakols]

I'm putting together a dual-strobe setup with my Olympus system. I already have a YS-D2 strobe.  Would it work to add a backscatter hybrid, or should I stick with two of the same models?  I'll be using the Olympus 8mm 1.8.  

[Dave_Hicks]

You can do that no problem. If you are using TTL you need to make sure your flash trigger will support the HF-1 in the same modes as the ys-d2.

[Chris Ross]

You can generally get two different strobes to work though they will need to have different settings if they differ greatly in power like the YS-D2 and HF-1.  In TTL they will both have the same duration which means the HF-1 will be quite a bit brighter than the YS-D2 and you'll be trying to use compensation on them to balance the lighting.  Generally it's simpler if the two flashes are the same, less to think about and murphy requires that the you'll have the high power strobe on the side of the camera where you want less light.   On the choice of strobe the HF-1 is probably overkill for a m43 camera.

[wetdreams]

5 hours ago, Chris Ross said:

On the choice of strobe the HF-1 is probably overkill for a m43 camera.

Sorry, I don't understant this statement. Could you go deeper into It?? Thank You Chris.

[TimG]

As Chris writes, it's much simpler to have two strobes the same.

 

Unless there is an overwhelming reason to use one strobe in particular, I'd also recommend going with two the same. Much easier for muscle memory changes to the settings, less faffing about, not yet another set of batteries/o-rings/spares to deal with; and as Chris so rightly says, less Murphy's Law of having the wrong strobe on the wrong side at the wrong time.

[Chris Ross]

4 hours ago, wetdreams said:

Sorry, I don't understant this statement. Could you go deeper into It?? Thank You Chris.

It's a very powerful strobe, typically with m43 you shoot at f8 for wide angle.  For full frame on the same shot probably f13-16 range depending on your setup, you just don't need as much flash power.  It will certainly work, but it's quite a heavy strobe and a lighter cheaper strobe will get the job done.

[Dave_Hicks]

Feel free to do what makes sense to you. Mixing strobe brands and models is done all the time for lots of reasons. I have often combined a small Strobe (MF-1) with a snoot and a bigger strobe like the Inon 330 or HF-1. Years ago i combined the Ikelite DS-51 and DS-125.

 

Balanced lighting is not all that and using varied power levels can assist in creating more dynamic and interesting photos. Allowing some shadows and texture into an image is a goal for some and using the second strobe as low power fill in a different position is a good way to do it.

 

Example:

 

This one was shot with a Backscatter MF-2 snoot above the subject pointing down and an HF-1 on low fill from the left and back pointing slightly inwards. 

 

Nikon Z8 w/Nikkor 105mm lens, +10 diopter, f18@1/200s iso125 Backscatter MF-2 strobe & snoot + BS HF-1 strobe

 

Pacific Spiny Lumpsucker I shot last week:

Edited 13 hours ago by Dave_Hicks

[wetdreams]

6 hours ago, Chris Ross said:

11 hours ago, wetdreams said:

Sorry, I don't understant this statement. Could you go deeper into It?? Thank You Chris.

It's a very powerful strobe, typically with m43 you shoot at f8 for wide angle.  For full frame on the same shot probably f13-16 range depending on your setup, you just don't need as much flash power.  It will certainly work, but it's quite a heavy strobe and a lighter cheaper strobe will get the job done.

Thank You Chris. So many things to learn yet...

[hsakols]

Thanks for the responses.  I'll be diving in Indonesia and want enough with my 8mm 1.8 lens to cover animals like manta rays, sharks, etc...  Also, I want enough coverage for extensive clear water reef scenes. I already have a YS-D2 but I think it will be easier having two of the same strobe.  Yes, the backscatter strobes are heavy and powerful. Wouldn't I want all the juice I can get, and just use the YS-D2 for macro?  Also, do you find a significant improvement using RC over TTL?  Thanks again for all the help.  When I'm not diving the tropics I will be in the cold waters of the Pacific Northwest, where maybe I don't need as much power because of the subject matter.  

[Dave_Hicks]

1 hour ago, hsakols said:

Thanks for the responses.  I'll be diving in Indonesia and want enough with my 8mm 1.8 lens to cover animals like manta rays, sharks, etc...  Also, I want enough coverage for extensive clear water reef scenes. I already have a YS-D2 but I think it will be easier having two of the same strobe.  Yes, the backscatter strobes are heavy and powerful. Wouldn't I want all the juice I can get, and just use the YS-D2 for macro?  Also, do you find a significant improvement using RC over TTL?  Thanks again for all the help.  When I'm not diving the tropics I will be in the cold waters of the Pacific Northwest, where maybe I don't need as much power because of the subject matter.  

Power can be used in 200 big flash dumps or 1,000 smaller ones. There is a power knob that goes all the way down to 1/32 power. A powerful strobe like the HF-1 is fantastic in the Pacific Northwest (where I dive) no mater your subject. Battery life of the HF-1 is fantastic, and the powerful video/spotting light will come in very handy. 

[Chris Ross]

4 hours ago, hsakols said:

Thanks for the responses.  I'll be diving in Indonesia and want enough with my 8mm 1.8 lens to cover animals like manta rays, sharks, etc...  Also, I want enough coverage for extensive clear water reef scenes. I already have a YS-D2 but I think it will be easier having two of the same strobe.  Yes, the backscatter strobes are heavy and powerful. Wouldn't I want all the juice I can get, and just use the YS-D2 for macro?  Also, do you find a significant improvement using RC over TTL?  Thanks again for all the help.  When I'm not diving the tropics I will be in the cold waters of the Pacific Northwest, where maybe I don't need as much power because of the subject matter.  

Shooting m43 is less demanding you are not closing your aperture down so much compared to full frame.  Certainly reef scenes take the most power, but the YS-D2 has enough for m43.  Diving in the tropics also involves thinking about transport, The YS-D2 is near half the weight and  is almost neutral UW, if you are using the AOI housing then you likely won't need any buoyancy arms, but you'll probably be wanting them with the HF-1 strobes. 

 

On the dual strobes, while you can have them different and make it work and even if you want to have uneven lighting it's less thought to go from even light both sides to unbalanced, to me it's conceptually easier to have two identical strobes as my starting point.

[cerich]

You never mentioned what oly camera or housing you are using. If you have a housing system and are using the olympus small hotshoe flash like the Olympus brand housing the YS-D2 is a pretty good match with recycle time which still be a bit slow if a moving subject like a Manta or shark when shooting wide angle where you are more likely to be doing bigger power dumps into the flash and strobes. If you are using a housing system with a fast recycle flash trigger then you may really want to look at strobes like the Backscatter Hybrid (and others) that are more modern and have a MUCH, MUCH faster recycle time so you will be able to get more shots as the subject swims by.

Also, the Olympus RC is truly a really good TTL , generally better than non RC TTL (like with your YS-D2) if you use TTL in your shooting (and I have traditionally shot manual with my strobes , but having a couple strobes now with RC TTL and shooting Olympus have been using more and more often). It great with a more modern camera that has great auto focus tracking and using a flash trigger to really increase your keeper rate of big stuff shot wide. Some folks also are using macro but I haven't gone that far with in macro to make a recommendation one way or the other.

Last consideration, many buy a great camera and housing first and then go budget on strobes. If you stick with u/w photography, you will regret. The Backscatter Hybrid is an amazing value and you are unlikely to ever grow out of it for photo, if you get serious into video you will however.

[cerich]

Ok, a bit more to consider. Yes, the Backscatter Hybrid is like I said above an amazing value in a very, very powerful strobe that will last you a long time even as you upgrade systems.

If $$$ is a primary concern, and having two strobes that are the same to make life all around much easier, you want fast recycle times,you want small and easy to transport, you want RC TTL for your Oly camera, take a look at what Andrew is doing using dual AOI QC-RC strobes with  over here

An Olympus shooter in Cayman

Lots of self appointed "serious" UW photographers will scoff at the idea saying they aren't powerful enough or wide enough (while also thinking not expensive enough). Meh, they would be wrong. I have shot them myself (and gave to a poor budding photographer/instructor in Bali) and was very happy with the results. I had brought the system (Olympus E-m5, Oly PT-EP08 Housing, 9-18 and ZEN Dome and a 60mm with Olympus flat port to gift/tip when my trip was over having know the instructor had flooded her p&S recently and it was tertiary redundant to my needs. I had been given a AOI QC RC to test/use and keep so it went with it.

Few quick macro shots I took w/ the system about an hour before I handed over the system as a gift. (I remember being a young broke instructor in Cayman in 1996 shooting a sea and sea mx-10 and one of my well heeled customers on my advice upgraded to a Nikonos V with 15mm from Cathy Church's shop (Herb made the sale of course, Cathy just chimed in for a few mins)  from their Sea and Sea MotorMarine 2 system who handed me that Motormarine 2 system (MM2 with 15mm conversion lens and a 1:3 macro lens with YS-50) and how that was the most amazing thing ever, and how it grew my own photography. So it was time to pay it forward. (I still have that camera actually, among far too many other ones.
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[Chris Ross]

2 hours ago, cerich said:

If $$$ is a primary concern, and having two strobes that are the same to make life all around much easier, you want fast recycle times,you want small and easy to transport, you want RC TTL for your Oly camera, take a look at what Andrew is doing using dual AOI QC-RC strobes with  over here

An Olympus shooter in Cayman

Lots of self appointed "serious" UW photographers will scoff at the idea saying they aren't powerful enough or wide enough (while also thinking not expensive enough). Meh, they would be wrong. I have shot them myself (and gave to a poor budding photographer/instructor in Bali) and was very happy with the results. I had brought the system (Olympus E-m5, Oly PT-EP08 Housing, 9-18 and ZEN Dome and a 60mm with Olympus flat port to gift/tip when my trip was over having know the instructor had flooded her p&S recently and it was tertiary redundant to my needs. I had been given a AOI QC RC to test/use and keep so it went with it.

 

The website linked has some nice shots, though I should note that I looked at his wide angle shots and checked the EXIF data and it shows "flash not fired"for all that I looked at - the macro shots however all show flash fired.  So they all of the wide shots are natural light and they do look very well balanced .

 

The AOIs would be a great solution for macro where you need a lot less power compared to wide angle as the strobes are so close to the subject.  I am thinking they might struggle a bit for wide angle. 

[cerich]

1 hour ago, Chris Ross said:

The website linked has some nice shots, though I should note that I looked at his wide angle shots and checked the EXIF data and it shows "flash not fired"for all that I looked at - the macro shots however all show flash fired.  So they all of the wide shots are natural light and they do look very well balanced .

 

The AOIs would be a great solution for macro where you need a lot less power compared to wide angle as the strobes are so close to the subject.  I am thinking they might struggle a bit for wide angle. 

I had the same thoughts as you, I seem to recall him posting somewhere he uses the dome diffusers on them. They are GN22 apparently, if the dome gets the beam wide enough it's still going to be in the ballpark of a YS-01/02/03/UFL-03 with diffuser. Lots of folks do use them in dual strobes and get good results, but for sure the strobes wouldn't be as forgiving of poor technique, strobe placement, framing as more powerful ones.

This is with a single QC with the diffuser that came with, not the dome option , Oly EM-5 M Zuiko 9-18 at 10, f8, 1/160, 200 iso and flash fired. It's far from a great shot, I think I was more interested in the sunburst.

I feel that for  8mm fisheye (MFT so 16) using 2x of these well placed and within distance you could get really good results with even coverage, even with the diffuser that came with. For sure you would run into some times that you would want more punch, I suspect however that compared to using the sea & sea units mentioned in this thread you would be more often frustrated waiting for strobe to recharge.

Again, price wise 2 of these are just over $700, that's impressive.

My advice is to buy better strobe than you think you need generally (as I posted above) but if you are truly on a budget, worth consideration IMHO