Sony 90mm macro- AF or MF?

[Sarthur1]

Hey all

I recently purchased the Sony 90mm Macro lens, and I'm debating whether to use it on AF or MF modes.

Sony a6300 in a Fantasea housing, with the port system described in the picture.

 

Until now, I used the Sony 50mm Macro in AF mode, and it was very slow, but on the 90mm, the focus is faster and better.

 

Sony users- what's your take on this?

[Lewis88]

I'd go back button focus with focus peeking, and rock the camera back and forth to get the DOF where you want it. 

 

UW MF for super marcro sounds overly complicated.

[Buddha]

90mm macro might be a bit much for the 6300 since it's a crop sensor. Remember you're getting 1.6x the lens. So it'll be like 144mm which makes it hard to find your subject and focus. It can be done, it's just a challenge. I have a 6300 that I've used a Canon 100mm macro but only on land. 

 

I'd go with what Lewis88 said. Back button to get close, peaking and rock back and forth. As for the ports, I shoot with Nauticam housings and ports. I get the ports with the knobs even though most of the time I don't even put a ring on the lenses. I'd rather pay the extra now and have it if I want it then not have it and have to buy another port the same size as the one you got originally.

[Sarthur1]

12 hours ago, Lewis88 said:

I'd go back button focus with focus peeking, and rock the camera back and forth to get the DOF where you want it. 

 

UW MF for super marcro sounds overly complicated.

 

I never used the back button focus, I usually go for half shutter press and hold.

Tips on how to use it? Which focus mode should the camera be on for this?

[Architeuthis]

1 hour ago, Sarthur1 said:

 

I never used the back button focus, I usually go for half shutter press and hold.

Tips on how to use it? Which focus mode should the camera be on for this?

Back button focus is not dependent on focus mode ("focus mode" in this context would be e.g. manual focus, single point AF, continuous AF&tracking, animal recognition etc...). It just means that the focus process does not start when the shutter button is half pressed own (as is usual set by default, but inconvinient often UW), but instead you assign a separate button (that can be easily pressed by the dumb) to initiate this process. Nauticam housings have a special lever to activate such a button, what is very ergonomic...

 

I use the Sony 90mm macro with A7R5, so my experience with this lens is not really comparable with A6xxx cameras. I use similar procedures as recommended by Hergen Spalink on the Nauticam homepage and Alex Mustard in his videos (they are for A7R5 and A1). Before A7R5, I had Olympus EM1II and EM5II with Zuiko 60mm and Panasonic 45mm macro lenses.

 

=> I use C-AF&tracking, what works very well with the A7R5 (much better than EM5II and a bit better than EM1II). AF works even very reliable, when an additional SMC-1 is attached to the housing...

=> In addition I have assigned separate buttons to allow me changing the size of the AF field (for e.g. eye detection, I want a larger field, while for just C-AF&tracking, I want the smallest field possible to start with), as well as to switch animal eye detection on/off (sometimes the automatic algorithm focuses on something that is not an eye and I do not want focus there). I am still experimenting with this...

=> I also have the focus gear and can adjust focus manually, what also works very well (in contrast to Zuiko 60mm and Pana 45mm, the manual focus ring works very well with Sony 90mm)...

 

I doubt that with A7R5 it will be reliably possible to C-AF on a single fish and then to follow it by tracking for a longer time period. For a short time (focus on the fsh and C-AF&tracking keeps focus until the shutter is released, it will work...

 

 

Wolfgang

Edited January 10 by Architeuthis

[fruehaufsteher2]

But in addition that means that the focusing gear for the 90/2,8 isn't needed?

[Architeuthis]

One certainly can get sharp photos without the focus gear for the Sony 90mm. I find it sometimes, especially with SMC-1, very convenient to gross adjust first the focus manually (what goes very quickly with this lens) and then let AF do the rest. Without manual focus gear it would, sooner or later, also come to the same stage, but it will take longer...

[fruehaufsteher2]

46 minutes ago, Architeuthis said:

One certainly can get sharp photos without the focus gear for the Sony 90mm. I find it sometimes, especially with SMC-1, very convenient to gross adjust first the focus manually (what goes very quickly with this lens) and then let AF do the rest. Without manual focus gear it would, sooner or later, also come to the same stage, but it will take longer...

OK, understood. I had already bought the item two months ago and it would have made me unhappy if it had been unnecessary.

Edited January 10 by fruehaufsteher2

[Sarthur1]

2 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

Back button focus is not dependent on focus mode ("focus mode" in this context would be e.g. manual focus, single point AF, continuous AF&tracking, animal recognition etc...). It just means that the focus process does not start when the shutter button is half pressed own (as is usual set by default, but inconvinient often UW), but instead you assign a separate button (that can be easily pressed by the dumb) to initiate this process. Nauticam housings have a special lever to activate such a button, what is very ergonomic...

 

I use the Sony 90mm macro with A7R5, so my experience with this lens is not really comparable with A6xxx cameras. I use similar procedures as recommended by Hergen Spalink on the Nauticam homepage and Alex Mustard in his videos (they are for A7R5 and A1). Before A7R5, I had Olympus EM1II and EM5II with Zuiko 60mm and Panasonic 45mm macro lenses.

 

=> I use C-AF&tracking, what works very well with the A7R5 (much better than EM5II and a bit better than EM1II). AF works even very reliable, when an additional SMC-1 is attached to the housing...

=> In addition I have assigned separate buttons to allow me changing the size of the AF field (for e.g. eye detection, I want a larger field, while for just C-AF&tracking, I want the smallest field possible to start with), as well as to switch animal eye detection on/off (sometimes the automatic algorithm focuses on something that is not an eye and I do not want focus there). I am still experimenting with this...

=> I also have the focus gear and can adjust focus manually, what also works very well (in contrast to Zuiko 60mm and Pana 45mm, the manual focus ring works very well with Sony 90mm)...

 

I doubt that with A7R5 it will be reliably possible to C-AF on a single fish and then to follow it by tracking for a longer time period. For a short time (focus on the fsh and C-AF&tracking keeps focus until the shutter is released, it will work...

 

 

Wolfgang

 

Thank you for your answer!

To my understanding, the lens has either AF or MF.

How do you use both?

If I want to use DMF, the lens needs to be on MF.

 

Also, how would you reccomend to costumize the buttons (C1, C2, C3)?

[Architeuthis]

14 minutes ago, Sarthur1 said:

 

Thank you for your answer!

To my understanding, the lens has either AF or MF.

How do you use both?

If I want to use DMF, the lens needs to be on MF.

 

Also, how would you reccomend to costumize the buttons (C1, C2, C3)?

When I have the Focus Menue set as the following table shows, I can perform C-AF&tracking and manual focus simultaneously (this is A7R5, there may well be a difference to other models). Where my settings (entitled "Macro" and assigned to the C1 configuration, as I say I am still experimenting and the settings change with getting experience) are different from the settings that Alex recommends in his videos, I have indicated this by writing Alex's settings in the column entitled "Alex Mustard":

 

Assignment of the four custom buttons is currently by default (C2 is already set by default set to change the focus area):

 

Subject recognition on/off is assigned to the recording button, which is not required at all, as A7R5 has a separate configuration for video. Easily C1, C3 and C4 can be assigned to other tasks, e.g. changing recognition modes

 

 

Wolfgang

 

[hellhole]

i concurr that which camera you have does matters to the 90mm

 

strangely.. as when i on the a7r2.. it hunts and hunts and hunts... but when i was on the a7r4. it does much better on the AF.  I seen alex mustard shared that a1 and a7r5 are much better on getting focus on the 90mm.

 

strangely?   because the 90mm was release b4 the a7r2.  you would think that it will work well with it in the first place..

 

another thing about the 90mm is that if you use manual focus .. once you get to dial in... if you switch it to AF, it will all go away.  i understand that if you got it focus in manual focus.. you should be good..and take that picture... but sometimes i get it close, but wanted some help with the AF. is it how it is for all macro lens?

 

this lens is release in march 2015... almost 10 year!!  

 

lets hope we get a new one that can go beyond F22!!

[TimG]

5 minutes ago, hellhole said:

i understand that if you got it focus in manual focus.. you should be good..and take that picture... but sometimes i get it close, but wanted some help with the AF. is it how it is for all macro lens?

 

I can't say I've had that experience with the current Nikkor 60mm or 105mm or their predecessors. The old 105mm could be slow and sometimes hunted. But once steered in the right direction, it usually stayed on target. The latest 105mm version is very good.

 

[Architeuthis]

1 hour ago, hellhole said:

i concurr that which camera you have does matters to the 90mm

 

strangely.. as when i on the a7r2.. it hunts and hunts and hunts... but when i was on the a7r4. it does much better on the AF.  I seen alex mustard shared that a1 and a7r5 are much better on getting focus on the 90mm.

 

strangely?   because the 90mm was release b4 the a7r2.  you would think that it will work well with it in the first place..

 

another thing about the 90mm is that if you use manual focus .. once you get to dial in... if you switch it to AF, it will all go away.  i understand that if you got it focus in manual focus.. you should be good..and take that picture... but sometimes i get it close, but wanted some help with the AF. is it how it is for all macro lens?

 

this lens is release in march 2015... almost 10 year!!  

 

lets hope we get a new one that can go beyond F22!!

The MF/AF behaviour seems to depend on the camera body: I can MF with the focus gear and , at the same time, use the AF with A7R5...

 

Wolfgang

[Chris Ross]

2 hours ago, hellhole said:

i concurr that which camera you have does matters to the 90mm

 

strangely.. as when i on the a7r2.. it hunts and hunts and hunts... but when i was on the a7r4. it does much better on the AF.  I seen alex mustard shared that a1 and a7r5 are much better on getting focus on the 90mm.

 

strangely?   because the 90mm was release b4 the a7r2.  you would think that it will work well with it in the first place..

 

another thing about the 90mm is that if you use manual focus .. once you get to dial in... if you switch it to AF, it will all go away.  i understand that if you got it focus in manual focus.. you should be good..and take that picture... but sometimes i get it close, but wanted some help with the AF. is it how it is for all macro lens?

 

this lens is release in march 2015... almost 10 year!!  

 

lets hope we get a new one that can go beyond F22!!

It could be something as simple as the older cameras not providing as much power to the lens or that the early mirrorless AF systems were just not up to the task, even though the focus motor in the 90mm was.

 

My experience with AF/MF is on Canon and Olympus, Canon switches between the two seamlessly and the big teles have full time MF.  On olympus they provide a clutch on some lenses pull it back for MF, there the focus changes to whatever the lens barrel is rotated to and them when clicking back to AF it maintains focus.

[hellhole]

On 1/11/2024 at 6:28 PM, Architeuthis said:

The MF/AF behaviour seems to depend on the camera body: I can MF with the focus gear and , at the same time, use the AF with A7R5...

 

Wolfgang

i want to make sure i got this right.

are you saying... u are in MF... u get pretty close to focus on the subject but just not sharp... at that moment u switch to AF.  the same image is there.. u half press the trigger and the camera will auto focus?  that is on a A7RV?  i am on a A7RIV...

 

On 1/11/2024 at 7:24 PM, Chris Ross said:

It could be something as simple as the older cameras not providing as much power to the lens or that the early mirrorless AF systems were just not up to the task, even though the focus motor in the 90mm was.

 

My experience with AF/MF is on Canon and Olympus, Canon switches between the two seamlessly and the big teles have full time MF.  On olympus they provide a clutch on some lenses pull it back for MF, there the focus changes to whatever the lens barrel is rotated to and them when clicking back to AF it maintains focus.

 

interesting.. i think i got to go try it out on the A7RV... 

[Architeuthis]

56 minutes ago, hellhole said:

i want to make sure i got this right.

are you saying... u are in MF... u get pretty close to focus on the subject but just not sharp... at that moment u switch to AF.  the same image is there.. u half press the trigger and the camera will auto focus?  that is on a A7RV?  i am on a A7RIV...

 

Hi Hellhole,

 

I have set focus in the focus menue to "AF-C". While I activate AF (usually by the thumb), I can turn the focus on the lens via the focus gear and see by color in the EVF which part of the image is in focus...

I can do this additional manual focusing before I activate C-AF, in order to set the focus into the right range and speed the AF up, or I can do the manual part after or while AF for fine adjustments...

 

I do not know whether this functionality exists also on the A7R4, as the A7R5 is my first Sony camera, but maybe a A7R4 owner can tell..

 

Wolfgang

[hellhole]

39 minutes ago, Architeuthis said:

 

Hi Hellhole,

 

I have set focus in the focus menue to "AF-C". While I activate AF (usually by the thumb), I can turn the focus on the lens via the focus gear and see by color in the EVF which part of the image is in focus...

I can do this additional manual focusing before I activate C-AF, in order to set the focus into the right range and speed the AF up, or I can do the manual part after or while AF for fine adjustments...

 

I do not know whether this functionality exists also on the A7R4, as the A7R5 is my first Sony camera, but maybe a A7R4 owner can tell..

 

Wolfgang

hm..okay.. i will try that out..  maybe i have been using it all wrong!! 

 

[Kamaros]

59 minutes ago, hellhole said:

hm..okay.. i will try that out..  maybe i have been using it all wrong!! 

 

Unfortunately, I don't think you can do this with an A7RIV. Sony added a new setting called "Full Time DMF" to the A7RV which I don't believe is available on their older cameras that allows you to switch to manual focus at any time and on any focus mode by turning the focus ring. On the A7RIV, I think you only have access to the dedicated DMF focus mode (basically AF-S with the ability to manually focus), so it can't be used with AF-C or tracking.

[hedonist222]

 

 

On 1/10/2024 at 6:05 PM, Architeuthis said:

When I have the Focus Menue set as the following table shows, I can perform C-AF&tracking and manual focus simultaneously (this is A7R5, there may well be a difference to other models). Where my settings (entitled "Macro" and assigned to the C1 configuration, as I say I am still experimenting and the settings change with getting experience) are different from the settings that Alex recommends in his videos, I have indicated this by writing Alex's settings in the column entitled "Alex Mustard":

 

Assignment of the four custom buttons is currently by default (C2 is already set by default set to change the focus area):

 

Subject recognition on/off is assigned to the recording button, which is not required at all, as A7R5 has a separate configuration for video. Easily C1, C3 and C4 can be assigned to other tasks, e.g. changing recognition modes

 

 

Wolfgang

 

 

Hi Wolfgang, 

 

Is your Aperture Drive in AF still in standard as per Alex? 

 

I ask because Priority Focus mode retains the aperture mechanism in full-open yielding more light and thus faster and more accurate focus. 

 

If your concern is being able to visualize real-time DoF, then you can assign one of the custom buttons to trigger DoF preview (akin to SLRs/DSLRs of yesteryear).

 

This is how I have my Sony a7rv set up. 

 

Edited June 23 by hedonist222

[Architeuthis]

12 hours ago, hedonist222 said:

 

 

 

Hi Wolfgang, 

 

Is your Aperture Drive in AF still in standard as per Alex? 

 

I ask because Priority Focus mode retains the aperture mechanism in full-open yielding more light and thus faster and more accurate focus. 

 

If your concern is being able to visualize real-time DoF, then you can assign one of the custom buttons to trigger DoF preview (akin to SLRs/DSLRs of yesteryear).

 

This is how I have my Sony a7rv set up. 

 

 

I have set Aperture Drive in AF to "Focus priority".

 

There are potential problems with focus breathing when using "Focus priority", I read about this when people use e.g. EMWL. So far, this works well for me with Sony 90mm and also with SMC-1 ...

[hedonist222]

51 minutes ago, Architeuthis said:

 

I have set Aperture Drive in AF to "Focus priority".

 

There are potential problems with focus breathing when using "Focus priority", I read about this when people use e.g. EMWL. So far, this works well for me with Sony 90mm and also with SMC-1 ...

What's focus breathing? 

Is it that Breathing Compensation? 

I thought that feature is only available in video mode. 

 

[Architeuthis]

2 hours ago, hedonist222 said:

What's focus breathing? 

Is it that Breathing Compensation? 

I thought that feature is only available in video mode. 

 

 

Sorry, I meant "Focus shift". "Focus breathing" is something else (it means AOV changes with focus distance)...

 

"Focus shift" means that an area that is in focus at a wide aperture, can be out of focus upon closing the aperture (the actual macro photo is usually made at apertures widely closed, while we like to help AF with focusing at aperture wide open).

This phenomenon should not play a role in high quality macro lenses, but it can play a role when additional optics, as diopters or monstrous water contact optics, are added (there are treads about this issue with EMWL, either here or in the old forum)...