Just few days after I ordered the GoPro Hero 12 camera to replace my aging Yi 4K+, Insta announced the new flagship camera, the Insta360 Ace Pro. The youtube is full with glowing reviews and comparisons to GoPro but only few available about its underwater usage. I'm still testing my GP12 but so far I think I made a good decision.

These are the main features of the new pretender:

1) Larger sensor. It has a 1/1.3" sensor compared to 1/1.9" sensor in GP. It has better low light performance, so it might be used in caves, deep  or night dives. Daylight situation I haven't observed much difference in comparison videos. However, one negative aspect of the larger sensor is the minimum focus distance is 40 cm with Ace Pro compared to 30 cm with GP12. In my opinion the close focus capability is very important underwater, so it's a tradeoff. The DJI Osmo Action 4 has the same larger sensor and at the beginning even vloggers complained about the close focus problem (unsharp face in the case of hand held camera), which was solved in later production models.

2) 8K 24 FPS and Clarity zoom to crop in without much loss of quality. I don't think it's really relevant underwater, especially that you can't activate the clarity zoom in the housing. Despite the Leica lens I don't think that it can create a 8K resolution behind a flat port through 40-50 cm water.

Both cameras can do 4K 120 FPS, which is fine.

3) AI chip. It promises better white balance and improved noise reduction. According to the reviews it's a fast and very responsive camera. The low light performance, also thanks to the larger sensors, is way better than GP12. But be realistic, for serious low light work you will still need a full frame (or some new generation APS-C) camera.

4) Ace Pro has a better battery life (all tests concluded that) and a faster charging option. A real advantage here.  22 minutes vs 2 hours charging time in Ace pro and GP12, respectively.

5) Software support. I use Insta Studio a lot for my One X2 360 degree camera and it's really good. According to online reviewers it's better than the GoPro Quik.

6) Few other gimmicky features: Flip up screen. It can be useful for vloggers but not for me, because I wouldn't use it without underwater housing (although it's water resistant down to 10m according to the company). With the AI chip you can create some cool re-styled AI-enhanced short (4 sec) video clips (AI warp) or can remove selfie stick easily. You can also do some basic editing of video clips in the camera, which is not really relevant underwater (I think). Ace Pro can be controlled by Apple Watch or some Garmin devices, but not underwater, of course. Magnetic mount, nice but not relevant underwater.

 

Functions that are similar or equal:

1) Stabilisation is  very important in the case of hand held footage and for long time GoPro was the real leader here but both Insta and DJI are catching up. I haven't seen any thorough underwater test so far, but based on the typical boring running in the park videos they are all very good today.

2) Picture quality under good light conditions. It's hard to tell the difference, sometimes GP12 is better, while other in other case Ace Pro is the winner.

3) HDR mode, flat profile. Both have some options, HDR is slightly better in ACE Pro (based on above water tests).

 

Why I don't regret my GoPro camera purchase?

1) Ace Pro is more expensive (450 Euro vs 350 Euro (was on sale before Christmas))

2) High quality underwater accessories for GoPro. I'm planning to buy a quality wide angle wet lens for my camera, and I can chose from AOI UWL-03(this will be mypick most probably) or INON UFL G-140 SD. Also high quality more lens element close-focus lenses are available for GoPro but not for Ace Pro. There are more options to buy a dome port fitting to GP12 for split videos.

3) 10-bit video mode offers a better quality of colours and hopefully it will solve the banding (in blue background) problem of old action cameras.

4) GoPro Labs is an official beta platform, which extends the camera capabilities beyond its stock features. It's really fantastic. Besides increasing the bitrate and other not default supported parameters, the coolest thing is that you can create QR codes with various set ups (Low light, fast action, Slow motion etc) and you can take these pictures on laminated sheets with you in your BCD pocket. Just show the QR code to the camera and it will take over the settings. It's a really nice feature. It happened few times with me that my camera had the wrong settings (time lapse from the previous day) and it was too late to turn back or change it underwater. So with GP12 I can have a fast changes of many favourite settings.

 

So who is the new king? Actually Insta360 has a 1-inch sensor module with Leica lens, which offers even better picture quality on paper. However, nobody really use this camera underwater and it's probably due to the marginal image quality increase at a hefty price and the even worse close focus capability. I think, for underwater usage, GoPro has still some advantages, but I think the next DJI Osmo Action will dethrone both GoPro and Insta360 in the future. This is just my prediction based on the the DJI Osmo Pocket 3. If DJI implement the 1-inch sensor with auto focus (current action cameras have fixed focus) and some kind of advanced image stabilisation (not necessarily gimbal) I think that will be a game changer. Until then, I think either with GoPro or Insta, or even with DJI Osmo Action, you cannot go wrong.

What do you think, who the king is on the action camera throne?

 

 

 

 

 

I have been following this user for quite some time. He tries compact cameras and action cams in everyday scenes so you get a good idea.

He has posted many videos of the Insta 360 ace pro. I was intrigued by this one where he tests additional standard 52 mm macro lenses and in the comments explains that Insta makes an adapter that mounts directly to the camera body.

 

There is an underwater housing and possibly AOI has a specific adapter to mount their lens on the housing. The AOI site has all the separate pieces but figuring out what is needed is not easy.

Thanks for sharing this.
Really interesting, and looking forward to following the next generation of cams.

 

I think the main issue for scuba users is that we've been, from the start, shoehorning actions cams into a use that they're not primarily designed for (despite the jack-of-trades marketing) - to some extent this is true of most imaging equipment, but I feel this is more present for action cams.
The only scuba-centric action cam type device was the Paralenz, and that didn't go too well.

What would really make things go forward for divers is a drift away from the action cam model, to a more neutral video platform, and this seems to be happening to a certain extent, though it's not clear because manufacturers are still holding to the action market which was behind the cams'inception to begin with.
 

At some point this will create friction, as there's only so-much you can do in terms of miniaturised lenses, sensors etc...
There is a tension building between user expections in terms of imaging quality and flexibility, and the specific requirements of action cam you can mount on your helmet to go mountain-biking or snowboarding...

At the moment it seems manufacturers are trying to make it work for everyone, and counting on the addition of external accessories to extend options, which is interesting, but I feel that at some point the cams will have to grow-up litteraly, physically increase in size and weight to reach the next level, which might mean splitting the range to a proper action-cam segment and a more all-purpose compact, rugged video camera for quality content production.

At the moment we have action-cams, phones, rugged oddballs like the TG7 and old aging dying compact-camera and then bigger cameras (which is what a lot of content-producers are still using for their channels...), and no device-to-rule-them-all....

 

To return to diving, it's interesting that the added accessories are really moving action-cams away from the compact action cam form, which seems to show that while there's a gap with massive photo-rigs, there is some leeway...

As i've said before, i'm really looking forward to seeing actual quality scuba diving footage shot on the new action cams, which is still a rarity - I think this is due to the fact that most users willing to spend time working on their underwater footage end up frustrated with the limitations of action cams, and quickly end up looking for something else.




 

Edited January 15, 20241 yr by bghazzal

waiting for a uw housing...

7 hours ago, bghazzal said:

As i've said before, i'm really looking forward to seeing actual quality scuba diving footage shot on the new action cams, which is still a rarity - I think this is due to the fact that most users willing to spend time working on their underwater footage end up frustrated with the limitations of action cams, and quickly end up looking for something else.
 

I must say I agree, it is no doubt possible to make good looking go-pro footage but there is an endless supply shakey, jittery poorly lit clips with no apparent point to them and which are way too long floating about on the internet. 

 

There is a fundamental problem of course with bigger sensors, the tiny sensors have a lot of depth of field even with fast lenses.  As the lenses get bigger magnification on chip increases and minimum focus distance grows and probably also runs into limitations if you use a dome port with actually focusing on the virtual image.  So some type of focusing becomes essential, it might even be as simple as a near and far dial and you switch to close focusing for UW behind a dome.

22 minutes ago, Chris Ross said:

I must say I agree, it is no doubt possible to make good looking go-pro footage but there is an endless supply shakey, jittery poorly lit clips with no apparent point to them and which are way too long floating about on the internet. 

 

Yes.

 

In my opinion, the issue is simpler.
We have millions of videos of people taking the action cam underwater because, they want to take home a memory and it's cheap. Those with ambition and passion quickly move on to more complete (and expensive) cameras and setups. So having perfect videos with the GoPro is practically an exercise in style for its own sake. Not that you can't make them, but the skills and especially the money you have to invest in them make you prefer to switch to a real camera.

Take for example the videos made for AOI by Kay Burn Lim. Certainly more than ideal conditions but they are the state of the art of these cameras, but at what price? That setup, with no lights, goes in a used Olympus M43 kit territory. Does it worth it?

 

On the other hand, even major film productions, both terrestrial and underwater, use GoPro's for B-Rolls and also for alternative shots. Advertising is usually avoided. The BBC still maintains its British understatement by dedicating special episodes to the BTS and How-To but now in the scripts of many documentaries, it is fashionable to make edits in which the 'real time' is emphasised by showing how the crew achieves its goals.  For example I really like Bertie Gregory's style and I remember very well that in one of his encounters with the leopard seal he had a GoPro on one arm of his camera lights. In the edit there were shots taken with the GoPro mixed perfectly with his Red.

 

I agree that a GoPro is so affordable that many people just consider why not to take one for the dive. Really beginner divers with no experience in film making. My colleague is planning to do his first dive course in Egypt in May and he asked me whether to buy a GoPro (I try to convince not). It's also free to post garbage footage on youtube, so it's full with them. But it's not because of the quality of the GoPro and other action cameras but due to the "camera operators" and lack of skills and knowledge (and taste).

On the other hand I know that even big productions, "blue chip" wildlife movies use GoPro cameras and not just for B-rolls.

Finally the quality is really not that bad in my opinion, and 20 years ago we have just dreamed about such level.

Agreed with all the above, but the burning questions on everyone’s lips are now:
- will the BBC keep using gopros or the latest gopro killer cams?!
- and if it's the former, to what model have they updated their GoPro sets?
😁😁😁

8 hours ago, bghazzal said:

Agreed with all the above, but the burning questions on everyone’s lips are now:
- will the BBC keep using gopros or the latest gopro killer cams?!
- and if it's the former, to what model have they updated their GoPro sets?
😁😁😁

as long as its sponsored... they will keep using... 

if insta360 comes and say.. hey.. we can sponsor that... or BBC looks for them...

Yesterday I watched the Freshwater episode of the Wild Isles (BBC?) and they clearly not sponsored by GoPro. The production team even couldn't afford an original GoPro housing so they used a Telesin one. I would also highlight the naturally designed wooden pole and the rock as a tripod replacement.

And they even used GP7 or lower, since this Telesin housing is a discontinued model for GP5-7. It would be cool to have an upgraded model for GP12

Nice catch! And nice extended battery housing...

Budgets are often tight these days, and there's quite a lot of subcontracting going on in the documentary world, with teams working as independent production companies- I think this might also be the case for some BBC projects...

When I was in Palau we actually had a BBC team over to shoot the moorish idol spawning - wasn't helping out on their boat as I had other work obligations on those days (😢) but did see them setup.
Red Komodo in a Nauticam housing if i remember correctly and... GoPros (but I think i was only the 8 or 9, not the latest), on a plank contraption for in-water shots from the boat.

Hopefully their sequence will make it onto the next Blue Planet, as intended!

Edited January 17, 20241 yr by bghazzal

1 hour ago, Nikolausz said:

Yesterday I watched the Freshwater episode of the Wild Isles (BBC?) and they clearly not sponsored by GoPro. The production team even couldn't afford an original GoPro housing so they used a Telesin one. I would also highlight the naturally designed wooden pole and the rock as a tripod replacement.

 

I have to see this series. Research mode on...

31 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

 

I have to see this series. Research mode on...

It's on Amazon prime (in Germany)

41 minutes ago, Nikolausz said:

It's on Amazon prime (in Germany)

 

Confirmed. Same here.

 

I saw the episode and The BTS.

I understood why they used the old gopro with the Telesin case and the homemade weight.

Those are the only shots that the BBC crew didn't take but the guy from the salmon conservation foundation who has been going every day for 5 years to film them.

 

Now I feel less stupid 😉

 

 

On 1/17/2024 at 3:04 PM, Davide DB said:

 

Confirmed. Same here.

 

I saw the episode and The BTS.

I understood why they used the old gopro with the Telesin case and the homemade weight.

Those are the only shots that the BBC crew didn't take but the guy from the salmon conservation foundation who has been going every day for 5 years to film them.

 

Now I feel less stupid 😉

 

 

 

Btw we need TELESIN type housings that are afforable to include extended battery packs for various applications (i.e, BRUVS for long time - these are baited video structures to monitor the fish diversity of a certain habitat).

 

We have some (https://www.backscatter.com/Anglerfish-GoPro-HERO9-HERO10-HERO11-Underwater-Housing-with-Battery-Plate-AFCL-GP9-F570) but are way expensive in comparison to the TELESIN styles.

Edited January 20, 20241 yr by homodelphinius

11 minutes ago, homodelphinius said:

 

Btw we need TELESIN type housings that are afforable to include extended battery packs for various applications (i.e, BRUVS for long time - these are baited video structures to monitor the fish diversity of a certain habitat).

 

We have some (https://www.backscatter.com/Anglerfish-GoPro-HERO9-HERO10-HERO11-Underwater-Housing-with-Battery-Plate-AFCL-GP9-F570) but are way expensive in comparison to the TELESIN styles.

Way overpriced. This one is more affordable but still expensive:

https://actionpro.de/produkt/t-housing-aluminiumgehaeuse-h10-power-f-gopro-hero-10-und-hero-9/

 

On 1/20/2024 at 6:01 PM, Nikolausz said:

Way overpriced. This one is more affordable but still expensive:

https://actionpro.de/produkt/t-housing-aluminiumgehaeuse-h10-power-f-gopro-hero-10-und-hero-9/

 

 

That one is for the GoPro plus the Digipower.

I'm using the DigiPower "naked" because is waterproof up to 10 m. In a 9 °C water I'm getting 3h 1/2 from a GoPro 11 at 4K@50p 200Mbit, Hypersmooth, GPS & Wi-Fi off.

 

A recent comparison video by Brent Durand

 

With this news the Insta360 Ace Pro is getting a better contender:

From AOI:"The popular UWL-03 and UCL-03 will soon be available to DJI and Insta360 users too. Special product preview at TDEX 2024 dive show."

This video shows their DJI & Insta360 adapters on the TDEX stand:

 

https://www.facebook.com/reel/7326888520771923

GoPro has sued this company for infringing a significant number of patents

 

https://technode.com/2024/04/03/gopro-files-complaint-against-insta360-for-alleged-patent-infringement-report/

3 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

GoPro has sued this company for infringing a significant number of patents

 

https://technode.com/2024/04/03/gopro-files-complaint-against-insta360-for-alleged-patent-infringement-report/

The Empire strikes back