Dave_Hicks Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 Only 150 flashes from 8 AA batteries? That seems to be shockingly bad performance. I did 9 days in Palau a couple weeks ago and was getting over 400 flashes from 4x AA Eneloop Pros. Mostly at 1/2 to 1/4 power, sometimes higher in the shallows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaolIla Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Last trip I change the 8 batterie each evening --> after 3 dives --> beetween 200 and 400 flashes.. sometimes the batteries status was red --> time to change AA Eneloop pro. I use 2 8x chargeur flat/small and not heavy... i'm happy with that. The problem is for me the time I need to change the 16 batterie... 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-11 Posted Monday at 04:31 PM Author Share Posted Monday at 04:31 PM The detail for the new battery pack was just posted. So far from what I read it looks like it is a big improvement over the 8 AA batteries and the lifetime exchange really adds to my probable need for the new toy. Also since most of my other electronics are based on USB connections this will limit the number of batteries that I will need to take along on trips and free up some space in my bags. Looking forward to see what others think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancoisC Posted Monday at 05:34 PM Share Posted Monday at 05:34 PM A little bit more than 800$ for a pair (50$ saving for each if you order before 8th of July). This is not cheap, but if you compare with the price of empty 4 to 8 AA booster... It's double the battery life, so you can probably dive 1 day with only 2 packs instead of 32 AA... But recycle time is only 10% better. Expect more for a Li-Ion strobe.... And I love (or not...) the sentence "NOTE: The USB-C charging cable is not included with the Retra Power Vault." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Hicks Posted Monday at 06:47 PM Share Posted Monday at 06:47 PM 1 hour ago, FrancoisC said: A little bit more than 800$ for a pair (50$ saving for each if you order before 8th of July). This is not cheap, but if you compare with the price of empty 4 to 8 AA booster... It's double the battery life, so you can probably dive 1 day with only 2 packs instead of 32 AA... But recycle time is only 10% better. Expect more for a Li-Ion strobe.... And I love (or not...) the sentence "NOTE: The USB-C charging cable is not included with the Retra Power Vault." That is outrageously expensive for what are already very high-priced strobes. I guess that know their market. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Diver Posted Monday at 07:30 PM Share Posted Monday at 07:30 PM $ per Wh is the same or currently even better when compared with the AA configuration: - 8xAA + Booster + chargers have around 20-22Wh and cost about $250 or $11-12 per Wh. - Battery pack has 40Wh and is currently $400 which is $10 per Wh. Potato patato... I choose the battery pack any day of the week for the practical charging, consistent performance and no more chasing loose cells on the floor and underneath furniture! Recycle time with these strobes on 8xAA is already not an issue and honestly I don't feel like deep frying the pupils of any marine life with my strobes, no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruehaufsteher2 Posted Monday at 07:58 PM Share Posted Monday at 07:58 PM It‘s less the price but more the size that keeps me away from buying. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaolIla Posted Monday at 08:01 PM Share Posted Monday at 08:01 PM 2 minutes ago, fruehaufsteher2 said: It‘s less the price but more the size that keeps me away from buying. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaolIla Posted Monday at 08:03 PM Share Posted Monday at 08:03 PM How long to charge a pack? In some situation/location it can be a problem. (Raja Ampat with power only a part of the day) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Diver Posted Monday at 08:28 PM Share Posted Monday at 08:28 PM This is perhaps my personal preference but the new Booster design is way too short... I couldn't use it as a handle to manoeuvre the strobes the same way as I could the first generation Booster which was about twice the length. The added length is a welcome addition, in my opinion. And looking at the spec sheet it looks the buoyancy is substantially improved as well. With the battery pack the strobe is now practically neutral without adding dry weight. It's the same length as the Backscatter Mini Flash, here is a clip from the hands-on video: null Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Hicks Posted Monday at 08:50 PM Share Posted Monday at 08:50 PM 1 hour ago, Jerry Diver said: $ per Wh is the same or currently even better when compared with the AA configuration: - 8xAA + Booster + chargers have around 20-22Wh and cost about $250 or $11-12 per Wh. - Battery pack has 40Wh and is currently $400 which is $10 per Wh. Potato patato... I choose the battery pack any day of the week for the practical charging, consistent performance and no more chasing loose cells on the floor and underneath furniture! Recycle time with these strobes on 8xAA is already not an issue and honestly I don't feel like deep frying the pupils of any marine life with my strobes, no thanks. Two expensive add on options to compensate for an inadequate default design/specs out of the box. Not impressed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Diver Posted Monday at 09:29 PM Share Posted Monday at 09:29 PM I'm glad Retra hasn't gone the easy and cheap route of opening their battery compartment to loose Iithium cells. I choose an "expensive" battery pack over loose lithium cells any day. Additionally I can go back to using 4xAA or 8xAA if any airline decides to ban lithiums... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreiFish Posted Tuesday at 01:40 AM Share Posted Tuesday at 01:40 AM Is there a link to the full specs? The recycling time improvement is a bit disappointing. Has anyone measured what the new Retras are capable of in terms of high speed recycling for action shots? What power do you need to be at to get 3, 5, 6, 10fps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insomniac Posted Tuesday at 02:29 AM Share Posted Tuesday at 02:29 AM (edited) I bought a pair of the Retra Pro Max's with the boosters, neoprene bumpers, reduction rings, soft diffusors, reflectors, macro rings, the works (over $4,000 USD) back in October. I pretty much spent my life savings on these things. I've only used on one trip to Lembeh and I had entire dives where my photo's wouldn't sync as their was an issue with my flash trigger. I ran into low battery issues on the repetitive (long) dives when they did work (for some reason they worked better in daytime than night). Carrying 32 batteries sucked; so this adapter interests me only because I am already so invested in these strobes. That said, I am also just considering cutting my losses and selling them while I can still recover a decent amount of my "investment". Edited Tuesday at 02:36 AM by insomniac 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makar0n Posted Tuesday at 11:50 AM Share Posted Tuesday at 11:50 AM (edited) 19 hours ago, FrancoisC said: A little bit more than 800$ for a pair (50$ saving for each if you order before 8th of July). This is not cheap, but if you compare with the price of empty 4 to 8 AA booster... It's double the battery life, so you can probably dive 1 day with only 2 packs instead of 32 AA... But recycle time is only 10% better. Expect more for a Li-Ion strobe.... And I love (or not...) the sentence "NOTE: The USB-C charging cable is not included with the Retra Power Vault." Closer to 1000 USD for a pair...they continue posting their prices ex-VAT so add 20% on average, at least for EU folks. 15 hours ago, Dave_Hicks said: Two expensive add on options to compensate for an inadequate default design/specs out of the box. Not impressed. Bullseye. Considering their pricing (like flagship model costing more or less an equivalent of 4 Inon S-220 strobes) one would expect a design allowing for usage of Li-Ion batteries out of the box. Or improving the power efficiency of the strobes in a first place.... But instead there is a half a grand "solution" that seems to double the size of the strobe. Yikes. Edited Tuesday at 12:43 PM by makar0n 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaolIla Posted Tuesday at 02:21 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 02:21 PM I'm happy with my 2 Retra pro X and my boosters but I regret one thing, it's the time it takes to change the 8 x 2 batteries, it's really painful. It's even more and more painful... I hoped that the power vaults would solve this point, but I find the solution too big/long and to expensive . Given the Retra price, I think a redesign of the battery compartment would have been welcome. A solution to have room for 8 AA from the beginning, without extension. and in this volume to be able to place 18650 or why not 2 type 32650 in order to have a large capacity. I admit to being disappointed by the evolution of Retra's products. My next flashes will certainly be from another brand. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Stearns Posted Tuesday at 04:33 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 04:33 PM Since day 1 when Retra introduced their underwater flash system, we were advised to use Eneloop pro AA Rechargeable NiMH Batteries which individually have a battery voltage of 1.2 V with 2550 mAh / 3.06 Wh Now with 8 of these batteries bundled together you then have 9.6 V, but your battery capacity is still going to provide 2550 mAh / 3.06 Wh. Whereas with 8 EBL AA Li-ion batteries which have a battery Voltage of 1.5V with 2200mAH / 3.3 Wh individually are bundled together will then have a total voltage of 12V, yet the battery capacity for all 8 together remains at 2200mAH / 3.3 Wh. While it was advised to stay away from the latter, now comes Retra’s new Power Vault Li-Ion battery pack which is stated to provide 7.2V with a battery capacity of 5555.56 mAh / 40 Wh. To me, this is a bit of a head scratcher. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaolIla Posted Tuesday at 05:49 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 05:49 PM An answer from Retra about charging speed Quote The Retra Power Vault takes approximately 3 hours to charge to 80% when using fast chargers. This translates to about 140 full power shots for every 30 minutes of charging. --> 3 hours --> 6 x 140 = 840 full power shots 100% charge --> 1050 shots 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Diver Posted Tuesday at 07:12 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:12 PM 4 hours ago, CaolIla said: A solution to have room for 8 AA from the beginning, without extension. and in this volume to be able to place 18650 or why not 2 type 32650 in order to have a large capacity. I admit to being disappointed by the evolution of Retra's products. This is absolutely the worst solution Retra could have done and I am glad they actually developed their own battery pack to ensure the safety of their users. Opening a battery compartment of a underwater strobe to multiple loose Li-Ion cells is a recipe for disaster. There is not a single reputable land strobe manufacturer who does this, there are either NiMh cells or proprietary Li-Ion battery packs. The use of multiple loose Li-Ion cells in underwater strobes is driven purely by cheap manufactures who want to increase the numbers on their spec sheet at minimal cost and at high risk for the user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaolIla Posted Tuesday at 07:19 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:19 PM 4 minutes ago, Jerry Diver said: This is absolutely the worst solution Retra could have done and I am glad they actually developed their own battery pack to ensure the safety of their users. Opening a battery compartment of a underwater strobe to multiple loose Li-Ion cells is a recipe for disaster. There is not a single reputable land strobe manufacturer who does this, there are either NiMh cells or proprietary Li-Ion battery packs. The use of multiple loose Li-Ion cells in underwater strobes is driven purely by cheap manufactures who want to increase the numbers on their spec sheet at minimal cost and at high risk for the user. OK for me if there is enough place for 8 AA Retra had the possibility to build a battery packlike the new one but not so big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Hicks Posted Tuesday at 07:41 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:41 PM 16 minutes ago, Jerry Diver said: This is absolutely the worst solution Retra could have done and I am glad they actually developed their own battery pack to ensure the safety of their users. Opening a battery compartment of a underwater strobe to multiple loose Li-Ion cells is a recipe for disaster. There is not a single reputable land strobe manufacturer who does this, there are either NiMh cells or proprietary Li-Ion battery packs. The use of multiple loose Li-Ion cells in underwater strobes is driven purely by cheap manufactures who want to increase the numbers on their spec sheet at minimal cost and at high risk for the user. I believe that is a very narrow point of view that puts a lot of limits on innovations available in the battery cell market. There are high quality Li-Ion cells available and there is some real crap. Just like nearly every product sold in every category. Backscatter has been selling Li-Ion powered strobes for at least 5-6 years now and I have not heard any horror stories come out as a result. They are VERY specific in the documentation about what cells they recommend and emphasize using safe and reliable batteries. Monolithic proprietary battery packs are NOT the cure all either. There are stories in the news every day about E-Bikes or Powertool batteries catching fire. I diver friend had a Powertool battery pack used in a DPV/Scotter catch fire and burn her car up. It's up to the equipment makers to spec and recommend reliable batteries, the user to use and charge them safely, and dive operators maintain an environment with safe zones for charging and adequate safeguards to deal with accidents. It's really no different than any of the other Scuba tech we use like regulators, high pressure cylinders, and compressors. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Diver Posted Tuesday at 07:43 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:43 PM 1 minute ago, Dave_Hicks said: Backscatter has been selling Li-Ion powered strobes for at least 5-6 years now The miniflash uses a single Li-Ion cell. This is a huge difference to using multiple cells combined together. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Diver Posted Tuesday at 07:45 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:45 PM Just examined the battery packs on offer at Backscatter's website: Ikelite battery pack: proprietary batteries with proprietary charger 21.6Wh at $250 or $11.6 per Wh Keldan battery pack: proprietary batteries with proprietary charger 49Wh at $430 or $8.8 per Wh OneUW battery pack : proprietary batteries with proprietary charger 14.6Wh at $185 or $12.7 per Wh Seacam battery pack: proprietary batteries with proprietary charger 14.7Wh at $381 or $25.9 per Wh Retra battery pack: proprietary batteries with integrated USB-C charging 40Wh at $399 or $10 per Wh (when pre-order sale finishes $11.2 per Wh) Honestly, I don't understand the complaints about the pricing. It aligns with what other manufacturers charge for their proprietary battery packs. However, there is a significant difference, in my opinion: Retra is the only company offering their pack with a standard USB-C charging port. Additionally, the strobe can still use 4xAA or 8xAA batteries if an airline bans lithium batteries for any reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Hicks Posted Tuesday at 08:18 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:18 PM 33 minutes ago, Jerry Diver said: The miniflash uses a single Li-Ion cell. This is a huge difference to using multiple cells combined together. I fail to see a tangible difference. How is one cell safe and two a hazard? Have you looked at the new Backscatter HF-1, which uses TWO 21700 cells? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted Tuesday at 08:19 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:19 PM I am (was🤣) happy with 8xAA supercharger on my Retra Pro Xs. I carried extra 8xAA and 2x 4-bay chargers. And 4 ports power brick. It is (used to be 🤣) part of battery hygiene to have 8AA batteries in a charger and every other dive or third dive to change one strobe's pack and never had problem with power in 4 dives per day scenario. Now thinking I could save travel weight and space on two chargers and 16xAA and charge only overnight is quite appealing. Yes it's 🤑🤑🤑 especially since I already have superchargers but still it's only money for added convenience and then there is that YOLO syndrome 🤣. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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