Nauticam Sony A1 + WWL1 + EMWL + Retra + Weefine buoyancy check

[RomiK]

I will test and tweak all of these next week in Red Sea and I thought I would share the freshwater test results. 

All setups:

- Sony A1 in Nauticam housing

- Shinobi monitor with 750bat in Nauticam housing

- Retra Pro X with supercharger

- Weefine WF074 Smartfocus 10000 with custom floats

- Nauticam 200/70 and 300/50 buoyancy arms

- Nauticam clamps with shackles and triple 

 

Setup 1:

- with 90mm F2.8 macro and port

- Retra LSD

 

Setup 2:

- setup 1 + EMWL 130 with custom floatie detachable underwater in case of need 

 

Setup 3:

- 28-60 with flat port

- Nauticam WWL-1B

 

I am happy to say that all three combinations are neutral to few grams positive in fresh water so I will add just a little bit of weight to balance it neutral in the saltwater. I could shave video lights floaties but I would like to keep this neutral for fresh water. 
 

Most importantly because the endpoints are neutral as well as EMWL the rig does not fight different angles and is completely agnostic towards the lights placement.
 

So the system is travel friendly as I don’t need to cary redundant arms or floaties and  what can I say - I am quite happy and hope this will help anyone with similar sized components 🤙. 

Edited May 29 by RomiK

[Davide DB]

Nice job indeed.

A good example for @shelbyrose

 

out of curiosity, did you ever filmed with the EMWL? Any sample on the net?

 

Thanks

[shelbyrose]

Thanks for tagging me @Davide DB! Excellent example. @RomiK are the custom floats you're using on the endpoints ones that you designed yourself? 

[RomiK]

10 hours ago, Davide DB said:

Nice job indeed.

A good example for @shelbyrose

 

out of curiosity, did you ever filmed with the EMWL? Any sample on the net?

 

Thanks

 

Thanks, the hardest thing as always is to come up with the concept, materials etc and the rest is just labor. But boy my head is tired! 🤣

 

No videos with EMWL yet. I use it not on tripod but in the water column and the amplitude is just to big for anything meaningful to come out 🤷‍♂️. This is the type of shots I am using EMWL for in the water column.

[RomiK]

22 minutes ago, shelbyrose said:

Thanks for tagging me @Davide DB! Excellent example. @RomiK are the custom floats you're using on the endpoints ones that you designed yourself? 

 

Designed and carved out with my hands (and tools)! 😁

[Davide DB]

Basically all the floats we see (pro & DIY) are made of closed cells pvc or pet foam. Closed cells is the key feature as it doesn't absorb water.

 

It's a very cheap material that automagically become expensive when you add the words "underwater photography" near to it 🙂

 

Problem is that normally is sold in 2m x 1m tables... This material is commonly used for boat decks so if happen you have a small boatyard nearby you could get some cutout for free... 

 

Edit: oh I forgot: it is perfectly cut with a small hacksaw or cutter and shaped with sandpaper as if it were balsa wood.

[RomiK]

20 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

Basically all the floats we see (pro & DIY) are made of closed cells pvc or pet foam. Closed cells is the key feature as it doesn't absorb water.

 

It's a very cheap material that automagically become expensive when you add the words "underwater photography" near to it 🙂

 

Problem is that normally is sold in 2m x 1m tables... This material is commonly used for boat decks so if happen you have a small boatyard nearby you could get some cutout for free... 

 

Edit: oh I forgot: it is perfectly cut with a small hacksaw or cutter and shaped with sandpaper as if it were balsa wood.

 

Actually mines are made from Divinycell HCP30 and it wasn't cheap by any means... 600EUR delivered for 1730x850x50mm ... offers 0.825g/cm3 buoyancy with operational depth of 190m and crush point 300m. Used for submersible devices and mini submarines . Yes, the cost of floats then comes down to like 10EUR (one video light) or 25EUR (EMWL incl screws etc)  but it's material only, no tools no time etc.

 

 From commercially available I found StiX material change buoyancy with depth so it collapses under pressure in regular depths of 50m while Fotografits own label doesn't. So it seems not every closed cell mats are equal.

 

https://fotografit.eu/products/63-floats-for-arms/

 

 

 

 

[Davide DB]

Divinycell is a commercial name for pvc closed ceall foam, exactly as Delrin is a commercial name fo Polyoxymethylene or POM.

I had avoided going into the technical details of density and thus depth resistance since 99% of the people here are recreational and use Stix.
You used a very good but extreme and therefore expensive version. I have used much lower densities that still resist 150 meters and cost 1/4. Also you bought a board the size of a door. We're talking about chunks of a few tens of centimeters here.
 

[RomiK]

41 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

Divinycell is a commercial name for pvc closed ceall foam, exactly as Delrin is a commercial name fo Polyoxymethylene or POM.

I had avoided going into the technical details of density and thus depth resistance since 99% of the people here are recreational and use Stix.
You used a very good but extreme and therefore expensive version. I have used much lower densities that still resist 150 meters and cost 1/4. Also you bought a board the size of a door. We're talking about chunks of a few tens of centimeters here.
 

 

Interesting, do you have buoyancy data and name for material you mentioned? My google search for Delrin POM brought metal replacement material which I guess is not it 🤷‍♂️

 

"Delrin® acetal homopolymer (Polyoxymethylene POM) is the ideal material in parts designed to replace metal."

[Davide DB]

My bad, sorry, Delrin has nothing to do with floats. Mine was just an example of the difference between the real material and the trade name given by the manufacturers and patent holders. Another example, Plexygals is the trade name for Poly(methyl methacrylate) or PMMA.

 

Returning to our floats, I often used Termanto, another trade name for a closed-cell PVC foam. From memory, I have used the one with a density of 75Kg/m3 that easily withstands 14 Bar. In boatyards they use it for the structure of the decks, which are then covered in fiberglass or Tek, and the scraps are usually thrown away.

 

[shelbyrose]

Returning to this conversation, do you guys know if you need to treat a PVC foam block in any way, or can you literally just cut/sand it to the desired size and use it as-is? For example, I was looking at something like this: https://www.easycomposites.co.uk/easycell75-closed-cell-pvc-foam 

 

Thanks!

[Davide DB]

Yes, as I told you it is cut and shaped like balsa.

 

I got these cubes by drawing a grid with pencil on the pvc block and then cut them with a carpenter's band saw. Then with a hole punch I drilled a 2.5 cm hole to put the arms in. Basically stix but resistant to 150 meters.

 

You can make a cardboard template of the base you need and then transfer it to the block and then cut and shape.

 

[shelbyrose]

13 hours ago, Davide DB said:

Yes, as I told you it is cut and shaped like balsa.

 

I got these cubes by drawing a grid with pencil on the pvc block and then cut them with a carpenter's band saw. Then with a hole punch I drilled a 2.5 cm hole to put the arms in. Basically stix but resistant to 150 meters.

 

You can make a cardboard template of the base you need and then transfer it to the block and then cut and shape.

 

Ah yes sorry my question was about whether you had to seal the outside somehow after you cut/sand it. But assuming from this that you're not doing that, right? Thanks again!

[Chris Ross]

the only reason to seal the outside might be aesthetics and to try to strengthen it against scratching and also sun protection.  It is made to be inside a composite structure so UV stability may not be great.

 

In round numbers the buoyancy should be about 950 grams/litre  (1000 cm3)

[Stig]

2 hours ago, Chris Ross said:

the only reason to seal the outside might be aesthetics and to try to strengthen it against scratching and also sun protection.  It is made to be inside a composite structure so UV stability may not be great.

I've wrapped a piece of old wetsuit around my home-made floats as the foam I've used can be a bit like sandpaper on the skin.

[Davide DB]

I used the block in the photo for at least five years before I bought my floating arms but you can paint them for a badass looking 😉

 

[shelbyrose]

Hey guys, I’m back to working on DIY floats, and I’m sadly not having luck at local boatyards, so now looking to see if I might be able to find something online. I’m getting a bit confused on all the technical specs for the various options—does anyone know if something like this might be sufficient?

 https://www.foambymail.com/product/cross-linked-polyethylene-foam-3lb.html 

 

or this 

 

https://www.foambymail.com/product/minicel-l200.html
 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts/ advice!! 

[Davide DB]

Hello,

 

Damn imperial measures!!!

Maybe some members are more familiar with the imperial system than I am, but from my calculations these are super soft and cost a lot too.

If you haven't found them free as scrap. you better buy the Stix or the 10Bar floats that are very cheap.

[John Liddiard]

My DIY floats are kids swimming noodles - the kind with a hole down the middle (some brands are solid). I cut these into rings and thread them over the arms. A couple of noodles will last for many years.

 

They do compress a bit with depth and with age. I counter the age by adding an extra ring where necessary.

 

As for the depth, its not enough to be a problem, but could be for those who like to make a camera perfectly neutrally buoyant and trimmed.

 

The fun part is that you can get them in all kinds of colours other than black.

[Nikolausz]

Fishing net floats are also good and they're cheap

[Davide DB]

4 hours ago, John Liddiard said:

 

As for the depth, its not enough to be a problem, but could be for those who like to make a camera perfectly neutrally buoyant and trimmed.

 

I tried with similar floats but at 30/40 meters my camera was an anchor

I tried Stix floats and they were good up to 40 m, below they crashed like marshmallows 🙂

 

[Davide DB]

Okay let's take stock of the various options available.

 

Closed-cell PVC
For recreational diving it must have a density of at least 40 kg/m3 (2.5 lb/ft3). In underwater photo stores it is quite expensive and in bulk it is cheap but sells only in sheets of at least 1 sq m.

Possible solution find free scraps in boatyards. It's commonly uses for boat deck structures.

 

Fishing net floats

These are also mostly made from closed-cell pvc. For recreational diving, more or less all are fine. They are really inexpensive but usually ugly. All pvc foam can be cut out, wooed, painted and drilled to your liking.
Just a short while ago I was telling to a friend 😉 that I was going to buy them from a big Italian manufacturer and instead they sent me a box of second-rate ones for free (they sell them by the hundreds in bags). They are perfect. These are for trawl nets and last up to 250 meters. You can adjust the central hole via a holesaw.

 

 

 

Then commercially there are ready-made floats for underwater photography. The ubiquitous Stix or cheaper floats from other brands. For example the ones from 10Bar that are also very stylish.

[shelbyrose]

3 hours ago, Davide DB said:

Okay let's take stock of the various options available.

 

Closed-cell PVC
For recreational diving it must have a density of at least 40 kg/m3 (2.5 lb/ft3). In underwater photo stores it is quite expensive and in bulk it is cheap but sells only in sheets of at least 1 sq m.

Possible solution find free scraps in boatyards. It's commonly uses for boat deck structures.

 

Fishing net floats

These are also mostly made from closed-cell pvc. For recreational diving, more or less all are fine. They are really inexpensive but usually ugly. All pvc foam can be cut out, wooed, painted and drilled to your liking.
Just a short while ago I was telling to a friend 😉 that I was going to buy them from a big Italian manufacturer and instead they sent me a box of second-rate ones for free (they sell them by the hundreds in bags). They are perfect. These are for trawl nets and last up to 250 meters. You can adjust the central hole via a holesaw.

 

 

 

Then commercially there are ready-made floats for underwater photography. The ubiquitous Stix or cheaper floats from other brands. For example the ones from 10Bar that are also very stylish.

So many stylish options lol. Thanks for this, Davide, super helpful summary. I’ve ordered some cheap fishing net floats that are really large so I can cut them down to size. Hoping to make a board to go underneath my housing tray to distribute the buoyancy better. I’ll report back! 🙂