Underwater Photography with a Rebreather

[Dave_Hicks]

An article that I wrote for Dive Photo Guide was just published today!

 

Check it out!

 

Underwater Photography with a Rebreather

Edited Monday at 01:00 AM by Dave_Hicks

[ChipBPhoto]

9 hours ago, Dave_Hicks said:

An article that I wrote for Dive Photo Guide was just published today!

 

Check it out!

 

Underwater Photography with a Rebreather

Congrats Dave!

 

[Troporobo]

Nice article Dave!  I’ve never been tempted to go CCR, mainly because I don’t love the added complexity in general and (perceived?) difficulty when traveling, but you make a great case for the advantages it brings to photographers. 
 

I will say that an extra 45 minutes of cold darkness at 90 feet in the Sound does not immediately jump to mind as an advantage for me! 
 

[Dave_Hicks]

6 minutes ago, Troporobo said:

Nice article Dave!  I’ve never been tempted to go CCR, mainly because I don’t love the added complexity in general and (perceived?) difficulty when traveling, but you make a great case for the advantages it brings to photographers. 
 

I will say that an extra 45 minutes of cold darkness at 90 feet in the Sound does not immediately jump to mind as an advantage for me! 
 

 

Thanks! Traveling is really not a big deal. Just know that you'll spend half an hour at the end of each day of diving prepping your CCR for the next day.

 

As for the cold dark thing, I try to relate cold water diving to something many people are familiar with. How would you like an extra 45 minutes on the ski slopes all by yourself? Cold water diving is usually comfortable as you wear the right amount of insulation for the situation. 

[SwiftFF5]

Great article thanks.  I have been thinking about CCR for a while now, due to the reasons that you discuss.  I have held off since most of my recreational diving, where I am really doing videography is travel-oriented and I worried about that.  Perhaps you can do a follow-up article on traveling with a CCR?  That would be really helpful.

[Dave_Hicks]

1 hour ago, SwiftFF5 said:

Great article thanks.  I have been thinking about CCR for a while now, due to the reasons that you discuss.  I have held off since most of my recreational diving, where I am really doing videography is travel-oriented and I worried about that.  Perhaps you can do a follow-up article on traveling with a CCR?  That would be really helpful.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked the article.

 

I've actually already written the "Traveling with a Rebreather" content. It was in this article I wrote for DPG, but they decided to segment it. I think they may run the other portion of the article in the future, perhaps next month?

 

What is covered are some the logistics and coordination with the dive operator, what they can supply and what you need to bring. It also describes some of the work you need to do every night to clean, refill, and prepare for the next days diving.

[fruehaufsteher2]

When freediving, I always enjoy the silence and the fact that you can hear the sounds that actually exist underwater. Conventional scuba is always terribly loud, and the other points you promised with CCR would be incredibly appealing to me.
Can you say anything about the costs here? Equivalent value of a nice full-frame camera underwater equipment with light, housing and glass?

 

[Davide DB]

1 hour ago, fruehaufsteher2 said:

When freediving, I always enjoy the silence and the fact that you can hear the sounds that actually exist underwater. Conventional scuba is always terribly loud, and the other points you promised with CCR would be incredibly appealing to me.
Can you say anything about the costs here? Equivalent value of a nice full-frame camera underwater equipment with light, housing and glass?

 

 

A ballpark estimate is around 10K euro. It depends on the specific unit. latest, more advanced rebreather are in the 12K euros. Some simpler units can be bought for less than 10K.

On top of this you have to add specific training. Each step costs about 1K.

[ChipBPhoto]

53 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

 

A ballpark estimate is around 10K euro. It depends on the specific unit. latest, more advanced rebreather are in the 12K euros. Some simpler units can be bought for less than 10K.

On top of this you have to add specific training. Each step costs about 1K.

I see more and more divers on S Florida boats with rebreathers.  There are definite benefits, especially for us photographers.  I appreciate how Dave also is clear about the prep and cleaning time required.  The investment cost and training required is also important to factor in.  If the steps are followed, rebreathers are safe and rewarding. 
 

[Davide DB]

 

I don’t want to hijack Dave’s thread and spoil the next article, but I’d like to add my thoughts here, since I’ve been diving exclusively with a rebreather and camera since 2012. I’ve used three different rebreathers and logged over 1,000 hours of dive time. I can’t even remember my last open-circuit dive.

 

I’ve heard that rebreathers are the future for over twenty-five years now. I have a 1999 issue of Aquacorps Magazine where PADI’s president at the time was convinced we’d all be switching to rebreathers within five years. PADI and SSI have tried several times to make rebreathers more accessible for recreational diving but haven’t really succeeded, at least according to their commercial plans.

 

Nowadays, though, it seems like the time is mature for a partial switch and these machines are becoming increasingly popular among advanced divers. The cost of helium has skyrocketed, and if you want to do technical diving (even without going to extremes), a rebreather is a must—unless you’re a billionaire. But for recreational diving, there are important factors to consider: cost, logistics, and mindset.

 

Cost

To generalize and keep with the theme of our forum, the entry cost is about the same as a complete underwater photography kit. This cost raises the same issues we’ve discussed countless times about young people and underwater photography: only those with a high income can afford it, which often translates to an older average age.

 

Mindset

Even though today’s rebreathers are much more reliable than in the past, they still require attention and a certain mindset for care and maintenance, which not everyone has. Open-circuit gear is infinitely more resistant to rough handling and neglect. A rebreather requires the same care and upkeep as your very expensive photography equipment. Let’s be clear: it’s nothing out of the ordinary, or all that different from what many of us are already used to doing.

 

Logistics

There’s nothing to add for so-called "home" dives. If you’re used to bringing your gear to the dive center and mounting it on a tank right before your dive, with a rebreather, you’ll need to prepare it the night before (just like your camera gear) and bring it ready to go to the dive center. Before the dive, you’ll need to do some routine checks that I’ll skip for simplicity.

As for travel, it’s a bit more complex. It mainly depends on the unit you have. Some are lighter and more compact and can even fit in a backpack, while others require a dedicated suitcase, with all the associated hassles and additional transport costs. Naturally, you’ll need to find facilities that can provide the necessary logistical support. Anything not available on-site must be brought with you. Without going into too much detail: dedicated tanks (if necessary, depending on the unit), oxygen, and filter material. Think back to whether you’ve seen rebreather divers at the dive centers you frequent, or if they offer oxygen refills, dedicated tanks, and (scrubber) filter material (like Sofnolime or equivalents).

I’ve personally been diving exclusively in locations I can reach by car for years, so I’m probably not the best person to offer advice on travel. My current unit it's the side-mount version fo Dave's unit. It fits in a backpack but then I need tanks on the dive site.

The most popular destinations are Indonesia and the Philippines. How many "rebreather-friendly" dive centers are there?

 

Exercise

 
I’d like to add a point I think is important—you can choose where to place it in your own considerations.  
IMHO, diving with a rebreather requires constant practice. Personally, I find it hard to imagine only using one on two or three trips a year. If I haven’t been diving for a couple of months, I need a few hours to feel comfortable with the unit again. Unlike open-circuit diving, experience in closed-circuit diving is measured by hours, not the number of dives.

 

Bonus Point

 

I hope I haven’t scared anyone. As Dave rightly pointed out, the benefits for a wildlife photographer/filmmaker are huge. Marine creatures generally let you get much closer without the noise and visual disturbance from bubbles. Bottom time is longer, and the diving comfort is unparalleled. Two weeks ago I made a multilevel dive for 180' with max depth 32m. I spent nearly one hour at 30m. The maximum deco time was 26'.

 

About dive comfort, one thing Dave didn’t mention: in open circuit, we breathe compressed gas. Compressing the gas to fill the tanks nearly removes all the moisture. Plus, due to a known physical principle, when the gas returns to ambient pressure, its temperature drops. As a result, while diving, we’re breathing air that’s as dry as a desert and ice-cold. This leads to dehydration.

Without getting into too much detail, in a rebreather, the chemical reaction that filters out the carbon dioxide our body produces, creates water and heat. So, in a rebreather, you breathe warm, humid air. This is why diving comfort is at its peak—even in tropical waters.

 

Ciaoooo

Edited Tuesday at 06:19 PM by Davide DB

[Dave_Hicks]

6 hours ago, fruehaufsteher2 said:

When freediving, I always enjoy the silence and the fact that you can hear the sounds that actually exist underwater. Conventional scuba is always terribly loud, and the other points you promised with CCR would be incredibly appealing to me.
Can you say anything about the costs here? Equivalent value of a nice full-frame camera underwater equipment with light, housing and glass?

 

Silence is a major benefit of CCR diving. I did a whole week in Socorro where we listened to humpback whale songs every single dive! You can also find your missing OC buddy by listening for their bubbles.

 

Equipment and training are likely in the 10,000 usd range, but this includes the basics. Most people will want extra tanks, maybe a booster, backup computer, etc.

 

Travel is very doable and I've flown to Mexico, Pulau, Truk, Philippines, Indonesia, California with a pair of CCRs. However, i think there needs to be a good advantage to make the effort. Some locations may limit your ability to take full advantage. Places where you can dive fully independently, need to go deeper longer, and can have extended dive times beyond 60 minutes are best.

[Chris Ross]

7 hours ago, Davide DB said:

 

Mindset

Even though today’s rebreathers are much more reliable than in the past, they still require attention and a certain mindset for care and maintenance, which not everyone has. Open-circuit gear is infinitely more resistant to rough handling and neglect. A rebreather requires the same care and upkeep as your very expensive photography equipment. Let’s be clear: it’s nothing out of the ordinary, or all that different from what many of us are already used to doing.

 

 

I think this is probably the real key to whether you should go for a rebreather - there are some people who just shouldn't consider them.  For myself I'm fairly meticulous and if ever I've had UW issues come up I've coped quite well, but I'm not sure I'd trust myself to be as meticulous as I need to be all the time.  I can 100% see the advantages but for 90+% of the diving I do I wouldn't be taking advantage of the long dive times and depth capability. 

[Whiskeyjack]

I've been interested in switching to CCR for a while. Aside from the obvious cost as a barrier to entry, I see very few of them here in the Philippines. I know of a handful of shops around the country that would support CCR diving, but I imagine 99% of the dive shops here would have absolutely not be able to provide you with any support.

 

It's also very rare to find shops that would allow you to dive longer than  ~70 minutes unless you're paying for a private boat/guide so that limits some of the upside in my opinion. Still, it's on my radar in the next few years for sure....

 

For anyone who does primarily boat diving with a CCR and camera, would a backmount unit be the most sensible option?

[humu9679]

On 11/10/2024 at 2:59 PM, Dave_Hicks said:

An article that I wrote for Dive Photo Guide was just published today!

 

Check it out!

 

Underwater Photography with a Rebreather

 

Nicely done @Dave_Hicks !

 

[Dave_Hicks]

1 hour ago, Whiskeyjack said:

I've been interested in switching to CCR for a while. Aside from the obvious cost as a barrier to entry, I see very few of them here in the Philippines. I know of a handful of shops around the country that would support CCR diving, but I imagine 99% of the dive shops here would have absolutely not be able to provide you with any support.

 

It's also very rare to find shops that would allow you to dive longer than  ~70 minutes unless you're paying for a private boat/guide so that limits some of the upside in my opinion. Still, it's on my radar in the next few years for sure....

 

For anyone who does primarily boat diving with a CCR and camera, would a backmount unit be the most sensible option?

 

Yes, back mount is better for boat diving according to the boat captains I dive with. They see lots of divers and the side mounts are sort of a mess and need a lot more support from the crew. That never makes anyone very happy.

 

I do a lot of shore diving independent of any dive shop or guide, so CCR works out great for me. Even when I am diving with a boat or resort in the Pacific Northwest you are still on your own. Nobody does guided dives around here unless you arrange for and pay for that service. You just work with the captain on the dive time, usually 60 minutes, but the profile is up to you.

43 minutes ago, humu9679 said:

 

Nicely done @Dave_Hicks !

 

Thanks!

[bghazzal]

17 hours ago, Davide DB said:

 

Logistics

(...)

The most popular destinations are Indonesia and the Philippines. How many "rebreather-friendly" dive centers are there?

 

 

No clue for the Philippines,  but it's definitely increasing fast in Indonesia, centered mostly around the Bali / Lombok / Sulawesi areas. Here's a 2022 article on the subject.

In east Bali (Tulamben/Amed) area where I am now, I can think of 3 Amed dive shops offering CCR training and/or support. Some are tech focused others just tech friendly.
Same goes for down south (Sanur area) - though not sure what is going in Nusa Penida/Lembongan, which are the closest diving areas from Sanur.
Otherwise the Gili islands area (Lombok), where a tech scene has been around for a while now.

And there's definitely some CCR support in north Sulawesi (Bunaken was one of the first places where a dive center hosted a full-time tech department IIRC), and there's a budding but dynamic cave diving scene in south Sulawesi.

Sure, it will be more tricky in more remote areas like Raja Ampat, Alor or Komodo, where beyond logistics currents also make it difficult to offer more independent, longer duration unguided diving (can be quite dangerous without good knowledge of the sites and the area), so don't think it will be much of an option other than on dedicated liveaboard cruises.

 

There's a small tech and cave diving scene in Thailand, people like Ben Reymenant in the south (Phuket) and also tech training in Koh Tao (Gulf of Thailand).

Sourcing sofnolime and O2 is certainly doable in Palau, where local based divers dive on rebs (mostly for the wrecks and also spawning dives), and tech-focused trips are regularly organised, and speaking of Micronesia, Chuuk / Truk based operations should offer some support as well, despite the area's remoteness.

 

And to stay in main dive-tourism / travel destinations,  Mexico (Quintana Roo / Tulum) is a well established cave diving and training area. Not sure what's going on in Egypt, but surely there's tech diving support / training in Dahab and Sharm el Sheikh?

cheers

 

Edited yesterday at 07:59 AM by bghazzal

[Whiskeyjack]

5 hours ago, Dave_Hicks said:

 

Yes, back mount is better for boat diving according to the boat captains I dive with. They see lots of divers and the side mounts are sort of a mess and need a lot more support from the crew. That never makes anyone very happy.

 

I do a lot of shore diving independent of any dive shop or guide, so CCR works out great for me. Even when I am diving with a boat or resort in the Pacific Northwest you are still on your own. Nobody does guided dives around here unless you arrange for and pay for that service. You just work with the captain on the dive time, usually 60 minutes, but the profile is up to you.

Thanks!

Thanks, that's what I figured regarding back mount for boat diving.

The section I bolded is not a thing I have ever seen done here, as the boats are owned by the resorts/dive shops and they have a schedule of 2 60 minutes dives, lunch, then 1 more 60 minute dive.

 

I think it will be difficult unless you're at one of the few shops that do tech/CCR unfortunately, or you have access to good shore diving here.

[Andrej Oblak]

What are your opinions regarding e-CCR vs m-CCR for underwater photography? How much manual work there is with m-CCR and does it enable you to fully focus on photography? Does an orifice feed you enough oxygen without requiring you to constantly add more manually? Would an e-CCR be better suited just because you don't have to manually interfere with it so much? Disclaimer: I never tried an m-CCR unit yet, so I don't really know what to expect.

 

I'm in the market for a sidemount CCR unit. I need it especially because of cave diving, as we have some pretty tight passages in our local caves, so it makes no sense for me to buy a backmount unit. I was focusing mostly on e-CCRs and I know of only 3 such models: T-REB, Liberty and XCCR. I've already tested the XCCR Flex2 and I liked it very much. But if m-CCR would be an eligible option too, then I'd have a much wider selection of units to choose from.

[Dave_Hicks]

4 hours ago, Andrej Oblak said:

What are your opinions regarding e-CCR vs m-CCR for underwater photography? How much manual work there is with m-CCR and does it enable you to fully focus on photography? Does an orifice feed you enough oxygen without requiring you to constantly add more manually? Would an e-CCR be better suited just because you don't have to manually interfere with it so much? Disclaimer: I never tried an m-CCR unit yet, so I don't really know what to expect.

 

I'm in the market for a sidemount CCR unit. I need it especially because of cave diving, as we have some pretty tight passages in our local caves, so it makes no sense for me to buy a backmount unit. I was focusing mostly on e-CCRs and I know of only 3 such models: T-REB, Liberty and XCCR. I've already tested the XCCR Flex2 and I liked it very much. But if m-CCR would be an eligible option too, then I'd have a much wider selection of units to choose from.

I heavily favor m-CCR units. I think they are less complex, fewer points of failure, and far easier to maintain. No electronics to fail, batteries to changes, solenoids to jam, or electrical harnesses to corrode. I have been diving with Kiss mCCR units since 2007 and never once had to take it to a shop or send it back to the factory. There is nothing on the unit that i can not service or replace on my own.

 

Diving an mCCR is simple. O2 flows at the rate you consume it when maintaining depth at a light workload. You adjust it when changing depth. This quickly becomes like maintaining speed while driving a car. You don't need to stare at your gauges but are always aware of them. This constant awareness is critical to safety, and in my opinion a reason that eCCR units are less safe. They enable complacency which can get you in trouble on that 1/100 day when something fails. mCCR units require your attention so you develop better and safer habits.

 

Adding photography should be no problem, but build up a few dozen hours on unit first.

[Troporobo]

18 hours ago, Whiskeyjack said:

I've been interested in switching to CCR for a while. Aside from the obvious cost as a barrier to entry, I see very few of them here in the Philippines. I know of a handful of shops around the country that would support CCR diving, but I imagine 99% of the dive shops here would have absolutely not be able to provide you with any support.

You probably already know this, but just in case, Solomon and Carol at Nautilus are CCR divers and know what’s possible.  

[Dave_Hicks]

1 hour ago, Troporobo said:

You probably already know this, but just in case, Solomon and Carol at Nautilus are CCR divers and know what’s possible.  

The main thing you need is to be able to fill 100% O2. Transfill from a big industrial O2 bottle that most dive operations have to blend nitrox. I often bring my own 14cf 2000psi O2 bottles as they are light and easy to transfill at a low pressure without a booster. Just pull the valve before you pack it. You can bring you own Sorb just like any other luggage. I can rent a diluent bottle in sizes from 30-80cf anywhere. So O2 fills are your limiting factor, which most places can handle. Beyond that it's just how valuable the CCR option is for that location.

[John Liddiard]

With all the technology, training and logistics pretty well handled by previous posts, the main point I would like to expand on is buoyancy control.

 

Buoyancy control with open circuit can easily be fine tuned by breathing a little shallower or deeper. With a rebreather, the system of diver and rebreather has a constant volume. Breathing deeper or shallower has no effect. You control buoyancy by dumping or adding gas to BC, suit or loop. With hands full of camera, its not simple to do that while 'hovering' by your subject, and when you do it create bubbles or feed noise, in the same way breathing does, so negating one benefit of the rebreather.

 

Hence the tactic is to get buoyancy perfectly adjusted before approaching the subject. Something we all should be practising, but more critical with a rebreather. That limits your approach to a subject being horizontal. Any up or down in the approach and buoyancy escalates in the wrong direction. As well as requiring a buoyancy adjustment, this can also have a dangerous effect on ppo2, another distraction.

 

On a larger scale, this impacts dive plan. You end up avoiding even minor zig-zag, especially when shallower, because that affects loop volume. We should all avoid big zig-zag dive plans, but you don't notice just how much you zig-zag by just a meter or so without realising it until you dive a rebreather.

 

From a more personal aspect, before I began using rebreathers my open circuit gas consumption was low. I was one of those divers who hardly breathed.

 

After years rebreather diving, back on open circuit my gas consumption sucks, and no matter how much I concentrate I cant get back to my pre-rebreather rate. Perhaps it is the effect of +30 years age and more than a few kg weight. But I like to blame it on rebreather breathing habits.

 

[bghazzal]

1 hour ago, John Liddiard said:

With all the technology, training and logistics pretty well handled by previous posts, the main point I would like to expand on is buoyancy control.

(...)

Hence the tactic is to get buoyancy perfectly adjusted before approaching the subject. Something we all should be practising, but more critical with a rebreather. That limits your approach to a subject being horizontal. Any up or down in the approach and buoyancy escalates in the wrong direction. As well as requiring a buoyancy adjustment, this can also have a dangerous effect on ppo2, another distraction.

 

On a larger scale, this impacts dive plan. You end up avoiding even minor zig-zag, especially when shallower, because that affects loop volume. We should all avoid big zig-zag dive plans, but you don't notice just how much you zig-zag by just a meter or so without realising it until you dive a rebreather.

 

Sounds like rebreather dives would be tricky for blackwater-style diving and anything requiring frequent buoyancy changes...
It's a shame because bubbles have - in theory at least - a marked effect on planktonic critters who are thought to be primarily guided by uw noise and water movement (“vortexes”) marine life makes...
If planktonic critters can sense creatures pulsating, undulating, jetstreaming or finning, imagine the effect a regular flow of OC bubbles must be having on the encounters 😅

Edited 9 hours ago by bghazzal

[Dave_Hicks]

4 hours ago, John Liddiard said:

With all the technology, training and logistics pretty well handled by previous posts, the main point I would like to expand on is buoyancy control.

 

Buoyancy control with open circuit can easily be fine tuned by breathing a little shallower or deeper. With a rebreather, the system of diver and rebreather has a constant volume. Breathing deeper or shallower has no effect. You control buoyancy by dumping or adding gas to BC, suit or loop. With hands full of camera, its not simple to do that while 'hovering' by your subject, and when you do it create bubbles or feed noise, in the same way breathing does, so negating one benefit of the rebreather.

 

Hence the tactic is to get buoyancy perfectly adjusted before approaching the subject. Something we all should be practising, but more critical with a rebreather. That limits your approach to a subject being horizontal. Any up or down in the approach and buoyancy escalates in the wrong direction. As well as requiring a buoyancy adjustment, this can also have a dangerous effect on ppo2, another distraction.

 

On a larger scale, this impacts dive plan. You end up avoiding even minor zig-zag, especially when shallower, because that affects loop volume. We should all avoid big zig-zag dive plans, but you don't notice just how much you zig-zag by just a meter or so without realising it until you dive a rebreather.

 

From a more personal aspect, before I began using rebreathers my open circuit gas consumption was low. I was one of those divers who hardly breathed.

 

After years rebreather diving, back on open circuit my gas consumption sucks, and no matter how much I concentrate I cant get back to my pre-rebreather rate. Perhaps it is the effect of +30 years age and more than a few kg weight. But I like to blame it on rebreather breathing habits.

 

Not sure i agree.

 

On my ccr, while talking photos i am constantly adjusting buoyancy. I mostly do this hands free by exhaling through my nose to dump gas from the loop or pulling a hard breath to activate the ADV and add to the loop. Sure, its a bit less efficient, but that's the a sacrifice to the camera.

[Dave_Hicks]

2 hours ago, bghazzal said:

Sounds like rebreather dives would be tricky for blackwater-style diving and anything requiring frequent buoyancy changes...
It's a shame because bubbles have - in theory at least - a marked effect on planktonic critters who are thought to be primarily guided by uw noise and water movement (“vortexes”) marine life makes...
If planktonic critters can sense creatures pulsating, undulating, jetstreaming or finning, imagine the effect a regular flow of OC bubbles must be having on the encounters 😅

Buoyancy control can be more refined than on OC, so no issues with blackwater diving.