MrChen Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I have a Nikon D850, Sea & Sea housing, Saga flip adapter, and usually shoot macro with a 105mm lens. I can get some decent photos out of it, but I have to be really close to subjects. If I tried to take a picture of the sun shining through water column, the photograph will just plainly be horrible. I've played with f-stops and shutter speeds. If the photo has any distance to the subject, I get a large halo distortion around the photo. What am I doing wrong? Is this a common issue for WA conversion lenses or just me? I haven't tried using a 60mm lens. I have issues when using my diopter with my 60mm, I get a black circular background. I'm confident it's the correct port, maybe it's issue with flip adapter keeping the diopter too far from the lens. Maybe this is also affecting my conversion lens? Thoughts? Tips? Wide Angle Conversion Lens KRL-09S - Kraken Sports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Hicks Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I don't have this problem using the KRL-09 with a Nauticam D850 with 60mm 2.8G lens. I use a Nauticam dual flip and typically mount a diopter and the kraken. * Do you have the "new" 60mm 2.8G or the older 60 2.8D lens? The older lens may not work well as the lens elements move when they focus. * Can you try screwing the Kraken on our port directly and bypass the flip adapter? I have lots of photos with this lens on Instagram, usually mentioning the setup in the comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ross Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 The first question is how well do your ports fit your macro lens? Does the lens come up to within a few mm of the port glass or sit further back? Then how close it is the accessory lens to the port glass? Testing the lenses by screwing them in a good suggestion and this will test if the flip adapter is an issue or not. But you also need to check if the distance inside the port is OK. The other consideration is does the adapter hold the lens parallel to the port? The saga adapters only have a hinge, while the Nauticam adapter has a locking clip to hold the parts together. I seem to recall this being an issue with flip adapters not folding completely flat in the past. The Kraken is a big lump and I suspect you need quiet a sturdy adapter to hold it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChen Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 On 1/19/2024 at 7:09 PM, Dave_Hicks said: I don't have this problem using the KRL-09 with a Nauticam D850 with 60mm 2.8G lens. I use a Nauticam dual flip and typically mount a diopter and the kraken. * Do you have the "new" 60mm 2.8G or the older 60 2.8D lens? The older lens may not work well as the lens elements move when they focus. * Can you try screwing the Kraken on our port directly and bypass the flip adapter? I have lots of photos with this lens on Instagram, usually mentioning the setup in the comments. Wow, that Nauticam dual flip adapter is pricey compared to others, but it looks a lot sturdier. I have the 2.8G model. I'll do a dive where I screw it on directly. Unfortunately, the lens doesn't work dry, so I need to dive it. It might be a few weeks until I get a chance. Once I do, I'll report back. I've looked at your IG photos, but it's hard to find photos of interest since I haven't figured out how to filter for the ones I'm most interested in seeing based on comments. I mainly use my 105mm, so I wonder if that's part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChen Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 (edited) On 1/19/2024 at 7:59 PM, Chris Ross said: The first question is how well do your ports fit your macro lens? Does the lens come up to within a few mm of the port glass or sit further back? Then how close it is the accessory lens to the port glass? This is a good question. Here's what I have for Nikon D850. 60mm S&S MDX-850 housing S&S NX Compact Macro Port Base (#56201) S&S DX Compact Port SII (#30112) This is matches the chart for an MDX housing and 60mm lens. With the saga flip adapter and subsee +10 diopter, I'm running into a problem with a black circle appearing around the picture. This could be an issue with the saga adapter holding the diopter too far forward. I'll configure the ports and for this and put the diopter directly screwed into the port to test. I'll also test the WA converter directly. 105mm S&S MDX-850 housing S&S Extension Ring 20L (#30123) S&S NX Compact Port Base (#56201) S&S DX Compact Port SII (#30112) I don't have any problems shooting with this configuration for macro. I do experience the halo affect with the WA converter lens. This configuration does NOT match any of the recommended port configurations for this lens. I have this configuration which dates back to when I had my Nikon D70 and D300 setups. I had the NX flat port which worked great for the 60mm and required the 20L extension ring for the 105mm. When I bought the D850, it came with the NX Compact Macro Port Base and DX Compact Port SII with a 60mm lens. I added the extension ring to fit my 105mm. With all that said, if I look closely, the 105mm does sit back a little from the lens. The 20L extension might be too large, but it's the smallest one they have. The 105mm does not fit without the extension ring. After reconfiguring the ports for the recommended port configuration per S&S's website, the 60mm lens sits back about the same distance as the 105mm does when using the extension ring. I would estimate there 1/4" to 1/2" gap between the lens and the port glass. Edited January 22 by MrChen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Hicks Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 This port is designed to work with a 60mm lens. Anything other than that and you would expected diminished results. Period. Interestingly enough, I went diving yesterday and used my 60mm + KRL-09 combo. But I screwed up and had my 105mm port installed! Opps!! I took a few shots with the KRL-09 and they were not horrible, but also not anywhere near a sharp as I get with the proper port installed. Below is a 100% crop and the image is fuzzy, even after some Lightroom tweaks. It just doesn't work well outside the design parameters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChen Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 That's similar to what I get on the outer edges of my pictures. I'm going to leave my 60mm installed and take it out with the saga and see what happens. If I don't like the results, I'll try it screwed directly into the port. I attempted to use the 105mm per Bluewater Photo's website showing it as compatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Hicks Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I looked at the Kraken website and it does not show anything like that I could find. It mentioned 60mm or 30mm on m4/3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChen Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 (edited) As for port lengths and not using their recommended configuration... They used to have an older chart with multiple configuration options. Configurations I've used for 60mm lens Previously: NX Standard Flat port (84mm) Current: Compact Macro Port SII (35mm) with NX Compact Port Base (50mm), Total length (85mm) The DX Macro Port 60 II is 93mm, possibly a little less, it doesn't say distance to the glass. Configurations I've used for 105mm lens Previously: NX Standard Flat port (84mm) with Extension Ring 20L (35.5mm), Total Length (119.5mm) Current: Compact Macro Port SII (35mm) with NX Compact Port Base (50mm) with Extension Ring 20L (35.5mm), Total length (120.5mm) The DX Macro Port 87 is 120.5mm and the DX Macro Port 90 II is 123mm. So, my current port configuration is within spec. Edited January 22 by MrChen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChen Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 24 minutes ago, Dave_Hicks said: I looked at the Kraken website and it does not show anything like that I could find. It mentioned 60mm or 30mm on m4/3. Yeah, I saw that. I'll take the 60mm out for a spin on my next BHB dive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Hicks Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, MrChen said: As for port lengths and not using their recommended configuration... They used to have an older chart with multiple configuration options. Configurations I've used for 60mm lens Previously: NX Standard Flat port (84mm) Current: Compact Macro Port SII (35mm) with NX Compact Port Base (50mm), Total length (85mm) The DX Macro Port 60 II is 93mm, possibly a little less, it doesn't say distance to the glass. Configurations I've used for 105mm lens Previously: NX Standard Flat port (84mm) with Extension Ring 20L (35.5mm), Total Length (119.5mm) Current: Compact Macro Port SII (35mm) with NX Compact Port Base (50mm) with Extension Ring 20L (35.5mm), Total length (120.5mm) The DX Macro Port 87 is 120.5mm and the DX Macro Port 90 II is 123mm. So, my current port configuration is within spec. Well, I accidentally shot the 60mm yesterday in the Port 87 intended for a 105mm and the KRL looked like crap behind that port. When first got the KRL-09 port I tried it with a 105mm + Port 87 in the pool and it looked very bad, worse that was happened yesterday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Hicks Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, MrChen said: That's similar to what I get on the outer edges of my pictures. I'm going to leave my 60mm installed and take it out with the saga and see what happens. If I don't like the results, I'll try it screwed directly into the port. I attempted to use the 105mm per Bluewater Photo's website showing it as compatible. I think you should discuss this chart with Bluewater. This looks like an error at best, and poor advice at worst. Edited January 22 by Dave_Hicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewSullivan Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 60mm or 30mm (on m4/3) are the only lenses that ideally SHOULD be used with the KRL09s. Longer macro lenses do not work properly and will have all sorts of optical issues. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChen Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 15 hours ago, Dave_Hicks said: I think you should discuss this chart with Bluewater. This looks like an error at best, and poor advice at worst. I bought it from them, so I used that chart as reference. They also sold me the Saga flip adapter which I'm not really happy with. I had to grind the hinge a little to allow the KRL09S to fit (per their own video) and I grinded it too far. I learned my lesson and grinded the other side correctly. I then used JB Weld to fix the one I messed up. But then I needed to swap the mounts so that the heavy KRL09S was on the one I did right and the lighter diopter on the one I had to fix. The JB Weld has held up extremely well. I used the steel reinforced epoxy. With all that said, I'm frustrated with Bluewater and will consider them a secondary source for buying gear, and not my first pick if I can buy an item elsewhere at the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChen Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 12 hours ago, MatthewSullivan said: 60mm or 30mm (on m4/3) are the only lenses that ideally SHOULD be used with the KRL09s. Longer macro lenses do not work properly and will have all sorts of optical issues. I love my 105mm. Every time I use my 60, I immediately go back to my 105. I'm going to force myself to work with the 60. I want to do some blackwater diving, so practicing with the 60 isn't a bad thing. This is the effect I'm getting with my 60mm and my diopter on the saga flip adapter using the S&S recommended port configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Hicks Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 That is vignetteing. The port is too long or diopter-gap too big. The field of view is getting clipped. This is what happened with my 60mm & SubSea+5 when i accidentally used it with the longer 105mm port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Hicks Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrChen said: I bought it from them, so I used that chart as reference. They also sold me the Saga flip adapter which I'm not really happy with. I had to grind the hinge a little to allow the KRL09S to fit (per their own video) and I grinded it too far. I learned my lesson and grinded the other side correctly. I then used JB Weld to fix the one I messed up. But then I needed to swap the mounts so that the heavy KRL09S was on the one I did right and the lighter diopter on the one I had to fix. The JB Weld has held up extremely well. I used the steel reinforced epoxy. With all that said, I'm frustrated with Bluewater and will consider them a secondary source for buying gear, and not my first pick if I can buy an item elsewhere at the same price. Try Reef Photo in Florida. I have used them for many years. Purchases and service for Nauticam. They are very responsive. They also don't charge sales tax for Washington State. Edited January 23 by Dave_Hicks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChen Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 4 minutes ago, Dave_Hicks said: Try Reef Photo in Florida. I have used them for many years. Purchases and service for Nauticam. They are very responsive. They also don't charge sales tax for Washington State. I've used Reef Photo and Backscatter. Unfortunately (or fortunately for diving), I live in Florida and will be charged sales tax with Reef Photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChen Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 9 minutes ago, Dave_Hicks said: That is vignetteing. The port is too long or diopter-gap too big. The field of view is getting clipped. This is what happened with my 60mm & SubSea+5 when i accidentally used it with the longer 105mm port. It makes sense and I assumed that to be part of the problem. I created another thread to discuss gap distance differences on diopters (Nauticam vs SubSee as examples). My thought is that the Saga adapter doesn't allow the SubSee diopter to get close enough to the port glass. It might not be fair to completely blame the Saga adapter, the SubSee diopter could be designed better for it as well. The port could fit tighter to the camera lens. It all adds to the gap distance. I'm only see the issue when using the 60mm with the diopter on the adapter. With the diopter flipped out of the way, the issue doesn't exist. I need to try the diopter threaded directly to the port. All of this is making me want to swap out the flip adapter and/or the diopter for the Nauticam equivelents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChen Posted January 30 Author Share Posted January 30 (edited) Switching to the 60mm lens made ALL the difference, but I still am not in the clear. I was definitely able to capture better images. Please ignore my strobe placement, I lit up a lot of particulates. I was at the tail end of my BHB dive and didn't position the strobes properly for the WA lens. I'm getting a crooked black frame around my images, see the attached image. null I was able to capture lighting MUCH better, see the cropped photo. null Edited January 30 by MrChen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChen Posted January 30 Author Share Posted January 30 I feel like my lens is sitting too far back. I didn't get a chance to screw the Kraken lens directly into my port. Would I be able to get my lens closer to the port glass by adding a weak diopter to the end of my lens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Hicks Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 16 minutes ago, MrChen said: I feel like my lens is sitting too far back. I didn't get a chance to screw the Kraken lens directly into my port. Would I be able to get my lens closer to the port glass by adding a weak diopter to the end of my lens? Don't add more things to complicate the situation. It looks like you have some vignetting, but it's angled. Make sure the shade is completely aligned with the port once it is settled. You generally need to loosen and tighten the shade once your mount is fixed. Also make sure the lens is flat on the port if you have a hinged adapter. It can be easy to bump it up a few millimeters when you dive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barmaglot Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Crooked black frame is typically indicative of a misaligned hood. Make sure that the big petals are directly on the top and bottom of the lens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChen Posted January 30 Author Share Posted January 30 21 minutes ago, Dave_Hicks said: Don't add more things to complicate the situation. It looks like you have some vignetting, but it's angled. Make sure the shade is completely aligned with the port once it is settled. You generally need to loosen and tighten the shade once your mount is fixed. Also make sure the lens is flat on the port if you have a hinged adapter. It can be easy to bump it up a few millimeters when you dive. Ok, I'll play with it. 21 minutes ago, Barmaglot said: Crooked black frame is typically indicative of a misaligned hood. Make sure that the big petals are directly on the top and bottom of the lens. I'll check the alignment. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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