Flash Sync Speed : 1/200 vs 1/400

[hedonist222]

I am comparing the Sony A7R V to the Sony A1.

 

Wren shooting in macro, using the back scatter MF1 strobe, I always try to use the fastest shutter speed and this is always capped at 1/200 (Canon 5d mkii).

The Sony A1 flash sync is 1/400.

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around the concept. 

 

The benefit of 1/400 means I can use a greater shutter speed to eliminate blurriness - blurriness from me through poor stability and/or blurriness of fast moving subjects like a crustacean feeding itself or soft coral or polyps swaying from a current. 

 

Obviously this would mean I would need to compensate by raising ISO, widening aperture, or increasing flash output. 

After several years of using the DSLR, Canon 100L lens, and Backscatter MF1, I rarely go beyond 4 clicks (out of a total of 6 clicks). I am usually able to get good shots using: 

1/200

Aperture between 18 and 25

ISO 100 or 150

MF1 between 3 and 4 

Therefore, if I used 1/400, I'd need to increase flash output to 4 or 5. 

Another question, does increasing flash output (while increasing shutter speed) affect the photo? As in increased luminosity from upping power - or is that culled due to the higher shutter speed? 

Is the net outcome the same? 

 

I ask because I'm considering an upgrade to the A7R V but there's a relatively unused A1 that's about $1,100 more.

This will be my second and last major diving-hobby photography great procurement.   🙂

 

Thank you. 

Edited June 15 by hedonist222

[humu9679]

46 minutes ago, hedonist222 said:

I am comparing the Sony A7R V to the Sony A1.

 

Wren shooting in macro, using the back scatter MF1 strobe, I always try to use the fastest shutter speed and this is always capped at 1/200 (Canon 5d mkii).

The Sony A1 flash sync is 1/400.

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around the concept. 

 

The benefit of 1/400 means I can use a greater shutter speed to eliminate blurriness - blurriness from me through poor stability and/or blurriness of fast moving subjects like a crustacean feeding itself or soft coral or polyps swaying from a current. 

 

Obviously this would mean I would need to compensate by raising ISO, widening aperture, or increasing flash output. 

After several years of using the DSLR, Canon 100L lens, and Backscatter MF1, I rarely go beyond 4 clicks (out of a total of 6 clicks). I am usually able to get good shots using: 

1/200

Aperture between 18 and 25

ISO 100 or 150

MF1 between 3 and 4 

Therefore, if I used 1/400, I'd need to increase flash output to 4 or 5. 

Another question, does increasing flash output (while increasing shutter speed) affect the photo? As in increased luminosity from upping power - or is that culled due to the higher shutter speed? 

Is the net outcome the same? 

 

I ask because I'm considering an upgrade to the A7R V but there's a relatively unused A1 that's about $1,100 more.

This will be my second and last major diving-hobby photography great procurement.   🙂

 

Thank you. 

Shutter speed is important in controlling background exposure in flash photography. The flash controls lighting of the subject. Think of them as separate variables. Without a flash, this is different. Shutter speed is clearly important in stopping action, movement, stability.

 

This is why you can shoot flash at slower shutter speeds, say 1/4th of a second, and the subject will be sharp but may exhibit signs of movement depending on how much ambient light there is. If you shot the same subject in complete darkness, that 1/4th of a second won't show movement in a frame because the flash stops all the action.

 

High shutter speed sync is related to the camera's mechanical capabilities. Going beyond the camera's sync speed on the high end will likely create a dark band that didn't get exposed.

 

Hope this helps!

[ChipBPhoto]

2 hours ago, humu9679 said:

Shutter speed is important in controlling background exposure in flash photography. The flash controls lighting of the subject. Think of them as separate variables. Without a flash, this is different. Shutter speed is clearly important in stopping action, movement, stability.

 

This is why you can shoot flash at slower shutter speeds, say 1/4th of a second, and the subject will be sharp but may exhibit signs of movement depending on how much ambient light there is. If you shot the same subject in complete darkness, that 1/4th of a second won't show movement in a frame because the flash stops all the action.

 

High shutter speed sync is related to the camera's mechanical capabilities. Going beyond the camera's sync speed on the high end will likely create a dark band that didn't get exposed.

 

Hope this helps!

@humu9679 Perfectly said!

 

I had a the exact same choice between the a1 and a7rV.  I personally opted for the a1 due to also having the ability to fire the flash at up to 1/200 using the electronic shutter in place of the manual.  I have been happy with the a1, but after using for over a year I will say the performance of the rV is basically on par.  Both cameras have given new life the Sony 90 macro, which will now focus at a normal macro lens speed with either body.

 

Another consideration is if a newer flash trigger (such as the UW Techics or others) is used with strobes that are capable of HSS (High Speed Sync), the 1/250 vs 1/400 question becomes moot.  Either body with the right trigger and strobes will go up 1/1000 and beyond.  (Some have reported 1/2000 usage)  More and more strobes, such as the MF-2, are including HSS as a standard feature.  

 

I will say that when used as a land camera, the a7rV does have a very unique screen hinge and movement which allows unusual images such as low verticals to be made much easier.  The focus on wildlife and people is also very fast and accurate with the addition of some upgraded AI capabilities the a1 does not include.  It also has 61MP vs the a1 50MP.  I have found the extra MPs of the Sony “r” series (a7rV) is useful if you need to crop a bit, but do not want to loose the ability to print large images.

 

Most of us do not change bodies/housings very often, so I understand it is a big decision.  If you like the rV, the $1100 difference could either be a nice savings or used towards newer strobes (MF-2 as example) that include HSS.  With that said, the a1 is an amazing camera as well.  No one should tell you which you “should” buy, but hopefully this has added a few more pieces for consideration. 
 

Last thing, if you decide to add an external viewfinder, be sure to get the new model that works with the larger EVF in either body.
 

Side note, speaking as a long-time Canon user, be prepared for the images to have a different color than you’re used to seeing and editing.  The “Canon colors” are legendary, especially for their warmth.  Sony is still fantastic, but it took me a while to get comfortable with the color look and feel of the Sony raws.
 

Best of luck!  Let us know what you pick.

 

 

Edited June 15 by ChipBPhoto

[humu9679]

"Another consideration is if a newer flash trigger (such as the UW Techics or others) is used with strobes that are capable of HSS (High Speed Sync), the 1/250 vs 1/400 question becomes moot.  More and more strobes are including this as a standard feature.  Either body with the right trigger and strobes will go up 1/1000 and beyond.  (Some have reported 1/2000 usage)  

 

Agreed. A game changer. I remember when 1/250th sync was revolutionary.

 

 Side note, speaking as a long-time Canon user, be prepared for the images to have a different color than you’re used to seeing and editing.  The “Canon colors” are legendary, especially for their warmth.  Sony is still fantastic, but it took me a while to get comfortable with color look of the Sony raws.

 

Long time Canon guy here, too. They still have better ergos, but their auto-focusing wasn't keeping up.

[Phil Rudin]

Using HSS has become more and more used in UW photography for several simple reasons, shooting at wide open F/numbers like F/2.8, too darken backgrounds especially in shallow water and bright overhead conditions, splits where you want to reduce above water sunlight and fill the UW part with the strobe. Since I own both the A1 and A7R V systems and use HSS these are some of the things you need to know.

 

#1 Electronic shutter cameras like the Nikon Z8 don't work well in high speed sync because you get images with rolling shutter just like video, more or less.

 

#2 Mechanical shutter on the other hand can be shot at very high shutter speeds with the proper equipment, 1/8000th sec for cameras like A1 and A7R V and 32000 I believe only with the Sony A9 III because it has a Global shutter. As with everything in photography you have tradeoffs. With A9 III it is a low ISO of only 250.

 

#3 You need strobes that work and are set to HSS and an accessory flash trigger that is compatible with your camera and strobes. For that I own two MF-2 and two Apollo III strobes along with the compatible UW Technic flash trigger which works with both types of strobes at the same #7 setting on the trigger.

 

#4 Once you have the equipment you need to know the difference between the A1 at 1/400th native and the A7R V at 1/400th in HSS. With native sync of 1/400th you have a sensor that can record information at that speed. The A1 has a stacked sensor which allows it to record faster than the A7R V sensor which tops out at 1/250th sec. So if the strobe is set for a full power dump at 1/400th you get a full power dump. With the A7R V at 1/400th in HSS set to a full dump the power is slightly reduced and gets weaker and weaker as the sync speed approaches 1/8000th.

 

For U/W use you are more likely to be using the HSS for macro and less for wide angle although both have advantages.

 

First image out of water is at about 1:2 using the Sony 90 macro at ISO-100, F/22 and 1/8000th sec. This is a day shot in ambient light but the background is totally blacked out. With the same ISO and f/stop the background would be lighted at 1/250th or 1/400th. These are with the Marelux Apollo III strobe (1) which has more power output than MF-2.

 

The sailboat is in the pool and about 1:3 at ISO-50, F2.8 and 1/400th using the MF-2 with a color filter which greatly reduces power output (red suck's up lots of light) same 90mm macro.

 

The Eel is the same 90 macro ISO400, F/10 at 1/400th with MF-2's using the A7R V.  

 

The Sony A7R V has been on sale in the US for $3500.00 and I have never seen the A1 new for less than $6500.00. For me the A7R V is the better choice with money left over for the UWT trigger and two HSS flashes. I have a backup A7R V when I travel out of the US. With the A1 which was purchased about two years before A7R V came out I have not ever considered the second $6500.00 backup.

 

For U/W use HSS is useful above 1/250th to around to 1/800th maybe 1/1600th tops. The light falloff underwater is just to great for it to work well at 1/8000th.

 

     

 

 

[humu9679]

1 hour ago, Phil Rudin said:

Using HSS has become more and more used in UW photography for several simple reasons, shooting at wide open F/numbers like F/2.8, too darken backgrounds especially in shallow water and bright overhead conditions, splits where you want to reduce above water sunlight and fill the UW part with the strobe. Since I own both the A1 and A7R V systems and use HSS these are some of the things you need to know.

 

#1 Electronic shutter cameras like the Nikon Z8 don't work well in high speed sync because you get images with rolling shutter just like video, more or less.

 

#2 Mechanical shutter on the other hand can be shot at very high shutter speeds with the proper equipment, 1/8000th sec for cameras like A1 and A7R V and 32000 I believe only with the Sony A9 III because it has a Global shutter. As with everything in photography you have tradeoffs. With A9 III it is a low ISO of only 250.

 

#3 You need strobes that work and are set to HSS and an accessory flash trigger that is compatible with your camera and strobes. For that I own two MF-2 and two Apollo III strobes along with the compatible UW Technic flash trigger which works with both types of strobes at the same #7 setting on the trigger.

Thanks for that Phil. A great explanation on native vs HSS flash.

[Chris Ross]

I would argue that all this talk about HSS and even flash sync speed doesn't have a great deal of relevance for macro shooting, you are mostly using flash as your main light source and the flash duration which is quite short especially at low powers is what freezes motion for you.  The one exception is in shallow bright tropical waters where the ambient light is strong, however the OP is using f18 -25 which with 1/200 sync speed excludes a great deal of ambient light for shooting shallow depth of field. 

 

To be clear shutter speed has no impact on flash exposure for normal flash shots, this is controlled by the combination of flash power and aperture alone.  In HSS, the flash pulses rapidly for the whole exposure to get around mechanical flash sync limitations, this is what allows you to use faster shutter speeds, but it sucks the life out of the flash to keep it pulsing for so long, so as shutter speeds get shorter the available flash power reduces.  Likewise flash power is set by duration

 

HSS is really only relevant UW for wide angle shots with sunbursts or if you are trying out shallow depth of field and you want to exclude ambient light.  The higher shutter speeds I would argue are mostly unnecessary for freezing motion, in most cases 1/200 should be adequate particularly in combination with image stabilisation in modern cameras to freeze motion from a diver holding a camera.  The main use is to control exposure at wide apertures or in bright ambient light. 

 

On the concept of using high shutter speeds to deal with blurriness due to camera motion, yes this can assist, however for shooting macro UW the camera/diver moves in 3 dimensions and in 5 axes - up/down side-side, roll and also back and forth which adds another problem, that of keeping the shallow depth of field on the subject so it remains in focus.  There is really no substitute for remaining stable while shooting.

 

To the OP I think there's probably other factors to consider besides sync speed to make your choice of camera.  Look at the whole package.  You don't mention wide angle, do you shoot wide angle, CFWA etc. ?  If you are a mostly macro shooter - I think the first consideration is the macro lens that has the best AF is it the Sony 90mm, Nikon 105mm, Canon 100mm?

 

[Chris Ross]

On the question of the A1 as I understand it - it has a mechanical sync speed of 1/400 and with electronic shutter it is 1/200.  The 1/400 is a limitation of the speed of the shutter curtains  and the 1/200 with electronic shutter is a limitation of the read out speed of the sensor. 

 

On the question of HSS - yes in theory you can run you shutter speed all the way up to the maximum shutter speed for the camera, but you are in a diminishing returns situation.  HSS works by rapidly pulsing so the flash is illuminating the scene the whole time the shutter is open which is often faster than the flash duration.  Effectively however the flash now has fixed output and you can't get as much light as you can at maximum power. 

 

Flashes work at constant power output and control power by duration.  During HSS the only way to control power is by changing the percentage of time the flash is on, but it needs to pulse very rapidly to avoid flicker and other artifacts.  It can't normally stay on the whole exposure so it has to pulse as it would run out of power.  At high shutter speed you have a narrow window crossing the frame during the exposure this means that each part of the sensor can receive light for a very short time frame - exactly the same as if you turned to power down.  This leaves you with two scenarios:

 

First is the sunburst wide angle shot:  you are shooting at f11-16 of full frame so strobes are near full power.  You want high shutter speed to control ambient light to tame the sunburst.  In this situation something like 1/320-1/500 is your limit as you straight up run out of flash power and you need the most powerful strobes available and they need to capable of delivering this power relatively quickly.

 

Second is the wide open aperture shallow depth of field macro shot.  Here everything works in your favour, the aperture is wide so you don't need much flash power.  Shooting macro your strobes are close in so need less power.  You can extend the shutter speed quite a bit more as the demands for flash light are much less.  You can probably use most HSS capable strobes in this case.

[ChipBPhoto]

This has been some really great information on HSS at a deep level.  Super valuable!  Perhaps a separate HSS thread could be posted so others can learn from it as well.

 

@hedonist222  To your original question, either the a7rV or a1 would be an excellent choice.  Either the native 1/250 or 1/400 shutter will allow you to make some wonderful black background macro images.  HSS is a tool to fill in additional needs that is now available on both cameras.  **That is so long as you have the appropriate flash trigger and strobes.**  Something to consider in your selection process and overall cost consideration.

 

Unless your new camera will be exclusively used for uw, I’d encourage that you also look at the body overall and choose the one that will best fit your personal needs.  From first hand experience, it is honestly a tough choice between two such capable and amazing bodies. 

Edited June 16 by ChipBPhoto

[DreiFish]

14 hours ago, Chris Ross said:

On the question of the A1 as I understand it - it has a mechanical sync speed of 1/400 and with electronic shutter it is 1/200.  The 1/400 is a limitation of the speed of the shutter curtains  and the 1/200 with electronic shutter is a limitation of the read out speed of the sensor. 

 

On the question of HSS - yes in theory you can run you shutter speed all the way up to the maximum shutter speed for the camera, but you are in a diminishing returns situation.  HSS works by rapidly pulsing so the flash is illuminating the scene the whole time the shutter is open which is often faster than the flash duration.  Effectively however the flash now has fixed output and you can't get as much light as you can at maximum power. 

 

Flashes work at constant power output and control power by duration.  During HSS the only way to control power is by changing the percentage of time the flash is on, but it needs to pulse very rapidly to avoid flicker and other artifacts.  It can't normally stay on the whole exposure so it has to pulse as it would run out of power.  At high shutter speed you have a narrow window crossing the frame during the exposure this means that each part of the sensor can receive light for a very short time frame - exactly the same as if you turned to power down.  This leaves you with two scenarios:

 

First is the sunburst wide angle shot:  you are shooting at f11-16 of full frame so strobes are near full power.  You want high shutter speed to control ambient light to tame the sunburst.  In this situation something like 1/320-1/500 is your limit as you straight up run out of flash power and you need the most powerful strobes available and they need to capable of delivering this power relatively quickly.

 

Second is the wide open aperture shallow depth of field macro shot.  Here everything works in your favour, the aperture is wide so you don't need much flash power.  Shooting macro your strobes are close in so need less power.  You can extend the shutter speed quite a bit more as the demands for flash light are much less.  You can probably use most HSS capable strobes in this case.

 

Exactly this. The main gains from HSS come in scenario #2, where you're shooting macro at wide apertures (in bright ambient light) and want to use a faster shutter speed to block out ambient light and darken the background.

 

The benefit for scenario #1 (wide angle sunburst) is simply not there, at least not at narrow apertures between F13-F16 as you would have to use on full frame, because you already need to operate your flash at or near maximum power, and making the flash pulse in HSS mode will inevitably reduce its power.

I've tested this empirically by shooting the Marelux Apollo 3s at 1/200s in both normal (manual) mode and HSS mode using the Canon R6 II, which has a max flash sync speed of 1/200s in mechanical shutter mode (1/250s in electronic first curtain). The HSS mode is 2/3 of a stop less flash output. 

 

So with the Sony example, the A7R V at 1/250s F11 lets say will have a 2/3 stop disadvantage in terms of clamping down ambient light compared to the A1 shooting the same scene at 1/400s F11 using the same strobes. If you try to combat this by putting the A7R V in HSS mode and matching the settings of the A1 (1/400s F11), not only will you get less flash power on your foreground subject than you would with the A1, but you probably will get less flash illumination than if you had stuck to normal mode at 1/250s. This is true even with relatively short flash duration strobes like the Apollo 3s (1/350s flash duration).

 

The place where HSS might be useful for wide angle is if you're shooting at very wide apertures like F4 or F5.6 (on m4/3s or with a wet optic like the WACP-1 or WACP-2 on full frame) in shallow, very bright ambient light conditions and you absolutely need to close the shutter speed down to 1/500s or 1/1000s to get the deeper background exposure you're after. Here, you should still have plenty of flash power even at ISO 100, so you can afford to sacrifice some to HSS.

 

Using HSS for typical wide angle shooting scenarios where you're at F8 or narrower aperture doesn't benefit you in any way It's in fact counterproductive.

 

There are still advantages to having cameras with higher native flash sync speeds. 

 

Though perhaps limited benefit to ones that have flash sync speeds above 1/600s like the Sony A9 Mark III, because to my knowledge there's no strobes with a flash duration at full power shorter than 1/600s.

Edited June 16 by DreiFish

[humu9679]

If the whole point is to control ambient light in flash exposures, a photographer can also adjust ISO.

[Phil Rudin]

For Chris it seems that using HSS is not a necessary addition to his shooting style.

 

I shot U/W about fifty years before I was able to add higher sync speeds (above 1/250th) to my tool bag. HSS is simply an additional tool that allows you to get some images that would otherwise not be an easily captured. It is hardly necessary for U/W photography anymore than a 60+ MP camera. I have W/U photos I took with a 5MP camera that I am still happy with. I also have images taken with 4/3 cameras that I am happy with. Full frame and higher MP's are simply tools that allow more possibilities and as with everything in photography create some downsides.

 

I live in an area with lots of bright sunshine and clear water. I also dive in several areas of Florida where you can find lots of great photo ops in fairly shallow water. I also as I have aged found myself traveling out of the country to places with sunshine and clear water. For me this makes HSS a useful addition to my toy bag. I don't think anyone here is advocating that HSS it is a must have only that it can be useful in some situations including equipment testing in a swimming pool.

 

Chris you may want to revise this line "To be clear shutter speed has no impact on flash exposure for normal flash shots, this is controlled by the combination of flash power and aperture alone." Most of use know that shutter speed does not impact flash exposure but ISO does in addition to aperture and flash power does. 

 

Also as I said above when shooting HSS power falls off the faster the shutter speed. For underwater HSS 99% of the time I will be shooting at speeds between 1/320th and 1/640th. Both the MF-2 and Apollo III strobes have more than enough power to cover those speeds at ISO 100 and F/22, perhaps more.

 

Attached images were all shot at ISO 100, F/16 and 1/640th sec. in a pool while testing a 16mm extension tube on the Sony FE 90mm macro. These could have been shot at F/22 or F/32 with the same results. In this case I was using one Apollo III strobe set to HSS with fiber cored. My standard test used a 35mm slide mount as a frame of reference for 1:1 {life size) with the 16mm extension you can. see that you exceed 1:1 and get to about 1.2:1 last image is with the excellent Marelux MV-10 +10 C/U lens which allows magnification around 2.8:1. 

 

null

Edited June 16 by Phil Rudin

[John E]

If you are willing to use APS-C mode when you need faster sync speed it is possible to get faster sync with the Sony A7R5  as that means the dark band at the top of the frame is not in frame. I haven't tested it thoroughly but tried it when I first got the camera and, from memory, I think 1/400s is fine. This is bearing in mind that the APS-C mode is 26MP and that the pixel size is the same as the Sony A6700 and larger than the OM System OM1.

 

[DreiFish]

6 hours ago, humu9679 said:

If the whole point is to control ambient light in flash exposures, a photographer can also adjust ISO.

Not if what you're trying to do is reduce ambient light, and especially reduce it in proportion to the amount of strobe light (which is what you try to do in a wide angle sunburst scenario #2 that Chris described.)

 

On most cameras, you can't go below ISO 100 natively. Even if you can (Nikon likes to use ISO 64 base on its higher-level cameras), it also reduces strobe power by the same amount as the ambient light. 

 

This is not to say, as Phil correctly points out, that HSS is useless. It does have its uses in some edge cases, more common in macro than wide angle shooting. It is, indeed, a tool in the arsenal. 

 

But you shouldn't think of it as negating the advantages of a camera that can achieve a higher native flash sync speed. A higher native flash sync speed is also a tool in the arsenal that can make getting certain shots (sunball shots, primarily) a bit easier in challenging conditions.

[hedonist222]

On 6/15/2024 at 11:43 PM, ChipBPhoto said:

@humu9679 Perfectly said!

 

I had a the exact same choice between the a1 and a7rV.  I personally opted for the a1 due to also having the ability to fire the flash at up to 1/200 using the electronic shutter in place of the manual.  I have been happy with the a1, but after using for over a year I will say the performance of the rV is basically on par.  Both cameras have given new life the Sony 90 macro, which will now focus at a normal macro lens speed with either body.

 

Another consideration is if a newer flash trigger (such as the UW Techics or others) is used with strobes that are capable of HSS (High Speed Sync), the 1/250 vs 1/400 question becomes moot.  Either body with the right trigger and strobes will go up 1/1000 and beyond.  (Some have reported 1/2000 usage)  More and more strobes, such as the MF-2, are including HSS as a standard feature.  

 

I will say that when used as a land camera, the a7rV does have a very unique screen hinge and movement which allows unusual images such as low verticals to be made much easier.  The focus on wildlife and people is also very fast and accurate with the addition of some upgraded AI capabilities the a1 does not include.  It also has 61MP vs the a1 50MP.  I have found the extra MPs of the Sony “r” series (a7rV) is useful if you need to crop a bit, but do not want to loose the ability to print large images.

 

Most of us do not change bodies/housings very often, so I understand it is a big decision.  If you like the rV, the $1100 difference could either be a nice savings or used towards newer strobes (MF-2 as example) that include HSS.  With that said, the a1 is an amazing camera as well.  No one should tell you which you “should” buy, but hopefully this has added a few more pieces for consideration. 
 

Last thing, if you decide to add an external viewfinder, be sure to get the new model that works with the larger EVF in either body.
 

Side note, speaking as a long-time Canon user, be prepared for the images to have a different color than you’re used to seeing and editing.  The “Canon colors” are legendary, especially for their warmth.  Sony is still fantastic, but it took me a while to get comfortable with the color look and feel of the Sony raws.
 

Best of luck!  Let us know what you pick.

 

 

 

Very helpful. Thank you. 

 

Which new model view finder? 

[ChipBPhoto]

28 minutes ago, hedonist222 said:

 

Very helpful. Thank you. 

 

Which new model view finder? 

Great, so glad it helped!

 

If using a Nauticam housing:

32212 - Straight 180 40° / 0.8:1 viewfinder

32214 - 45 degree Angle Viewfinder 40° / 0.8:1

 

If other brand of housing, double check with the dealer that you are using a viewfinder that can accommodate the new larger built-in EVF on either body.

 

[Phil Rudin]

Viewfinder review. I also have a like new 180 32212 for sale.

Edited June 17 by Phil Rudin

[humu9679]

18 hours ago, DreiFish said:

Not if what you're trying to do is reduce ambient light, and especially reduce it in proportion to the amount of strobe light (which is what you try to do in a wide angle sunburst scenario #2 that Chris described.)

...

But you shouldn't think of it as negating the advantages of a camera that can achieve a higher native flash sync speed. A higher native flash sync speed is also a tool in the arsenal that can make getting certain shots (sunball shots, primarily) a bit easier in challenging conditions.

Adding a strobe adds a fourth variable, and I'm not saying reducing flash "in proportion." The other variables being ISO, shutter speed and aperture.

 

You're right about native ISO in today's cameras. I'm happy my A7c does get down to Kodachrome levels, less happy with x-sync of 1/160th. And it would be cool to have HSS.

[Adventurer]

On 6/16/2024 at 6:27 PM, DreiFish said:

I've tested this empirically by shooting the Marelux Apollo 3s at 1/200s in both normal (manual) mode and HSS mode using the Canon R6 II, which has a max flash sync speed of 1/200s in mechanical shutter mode (1/250s in electronic first curtain). The HSS mode is 2/3 of a stop less flash output. 

 

Dreifish, could you tell us which HSS flash trigger / converter was used ?

I recently learned that the implementation of HSS can substantially vary depending on the trigger+flash brand used.

 

On some triggers+strobes the flash output and frequency stays the same and therefore decreases with faster shutter speeds.

 

With uw-technics and Apollo III 2.0 you will have the option to adjust HSS strobe output on the strobe. You can substantially see a difference once you use the power dial. Here it seems the frequency is dynamically negotiated by the converter and camera.

 

With the Backscatter HF-1 strobe their manual will reveal that this device has JUST ONE HSS OUTPUT LEVEL. This might also apply to the HSS implementation of the MF-2 and explain Phil's experience with it.

 

Somebody told me on Retras the output is auto-determined by the cam+trigger.

 

The manual turtle triggers will do HSS, I was told, but the frequency and output level of it seems static. It's recommended to review that more precisely.

 

It raises an interesting question: which strobe is the most powerful HSS strobe in the market ?

Edited August 20 by Adventurer

[JayceeB]

Here is a concrete example of where HSS could have been used.

 

This nudibranch egg mass shot was taken in 30’ of clear water during a bright sunny day.  I wanted the look of a wide open aperature, shallow depth of field shot.  The problem I had was that at my least sensitive ISO (100) and fastest shutter speed (1/200), paired with widest aperture of f2.8, there is just too much ambient light, and the shot in general looks dreamy and soft.  I would have preferred being able to increase my shutter speed much higher to get more contrast and a darker background mood to the shot.  HSS would have allowed me that flexibility.

Edited August 20 by JayceeB