Muck diving & camera tether length issue

[hedonist222]

Hey everyone

 

I really struggle when doing muck diving

 

The tether that secures the housing to  my chest D ring is too long. 

 

Sometimes I have to get very close to the seabed and then have to right my right or left hand to lift my dangling camera out of the way. Otherwise I'm just dragging the camera through sand, rocks, or coral. 

 

You can see how long the strap is in this photo. 

 

Thanks

Edited September 15 by hedonist222

[Dave_Hicks]

You should be holding your camera with both hands nearly all the time. It should only dangle on ascent if you need to hold a line or something. If drag a big camera rig, it is going to get f#@ked up. 

 

When I muck dive I am horizontal, frog kicking a few inches over the sand. The camera is in front of my face held in two hands. There is a camera mounted focus light acting as my primary light so I can find critters. 

 

How are you with trim and buoyancy? Perhaps that is the real problem? 

 

[hedonist222]

4 minutes ago, Dave_Hicks said:

You should be holding your camera with both hands nearly all the time. It should only dangle on ascent if you need to hold a line or something. If drag a big camera rig, it is going to get f#@ked up. 

 

When I muck dive I am horizontal, frog kicking a few inches over the sand. The camera is in front of my face held in two hands. There is a camera mounted focus light acting as my primary light so I can find critters. 

 

How are you with trim and buoyancy? Perhaps that is the real problem? 

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

My trim and buoyancy are pretty okay. I am easily able to maintain a +/- 10-15 cm while holding a depth.  

 

Why should I be holding the camera nearly all the time? "Should" is a strong sentiment...But keen to understand your perspective.

 

My issue is that the lanyards I have are, while very sturdy, are too long. 

It works for wide angle photographers.

 

But when you are 10cm from the sea bed, I would appreciate shorter length lanyards.

Also wondering how others go about this.

[Davide DB]

Of the two, one.

You can't have a long lanyard and expect that if you're with your belly 20cm from the bottom, your camera won't drag on the bottom. So it's normal that you have to hold it with at least one hand. Then when you are photographing, the natural position is as Dave described.

 

 

 

[hedonist222]

24 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

Of the two, one.

You can't have a long lanyard and expect that if you're with your belly 20cm from the bottom, your camera won't drag on the bottom. So it's normal that you have to hold it with at least one hand. Then when you are photographing, the natural position is as Dave described.

 

 

 

 

I found a fixaround.

 

I've attached a shorter lanyard to the fixture poles.

When "commuting", the shorter (blue)  landyards are attached to my chest D rings.

 

When I need to deploy/extend the primary lanyard to arm's length, I disconnect the shorter lanyard attachments.

 

Its an added step till I find a shorter landyard.

 

 

 

Edited September 15 by hedonist222

[TimG]

2 hours ago, hedonist222 said:

I really struggle

 

I see the photo attached to this post and think, "struggling". Really? 🤣

[hedonist222]

8 minutes ago, TimG said:

 

I see the photo attached to this post and think, "struggling". Really? 🤣

 

Fair point! 😄

 

[Dave_Hicks]

Use a coiled lanyard. Problem solved. I reinforce mine with a loop of 4mm bungie snaked through the coils as I've had these coils detach after some years of use.

 

[hedonist222]

23 minutes ago, Dave_Hicks said:

Use a coiled lanyard. Problem solved. I reinforce mine with a loop of 4mm bungie snaked through the coils as I've had these coils detach after some years of use.

 

 

This is what I have albeit longer. 

I'll keep an eye out for a shorter one. 

 

I still wanna know why one should always hold a camera while diving.. 😛

 

Teasing aside. 

I am on the other end of the spectrum. 

 

You should free yourself physically and mentally as much as possible when diving. The physical and mental effort you exert (waste) in unnecessarily  holding a camera is effort/energy you could've used in garnering more situational awareness.

[Davide DB]

7 minutes ago, hedonist222 said:

You should free yourself physically and mentally as much as possible when diving. The physical and mental effort you exert (waste) in unnecessarily  holding a camera is effort/energy you could've used in garnering more situational awareness.

 

I felt the same way until I irretrievably scratched my WWL-B which crawled on the bottom and banged on the rocks while I saved physical and mental energy by fluttering naively on the reef.
 

[hedonist222]

1 hour ago, Davide DB said:

 

I felt the same way until I irretrievably scratched my WWL-B which crawled on the bottom and banged on the rocks while I saved physical and mental energy by fluttering naively on the reef.
 

 

If you solve the reason you scratched your lens, you'll then be able to redirect that energy to other things. 🙂

 

Sorry to hear about your lens. I hear polish gets out most scratches. 

[John Liddiard]

I keep my camera attached to me on a lanyard. But during the dive that is not for convenience - I would never let go of it except to avert a situation more precious than my camera. Occasionally I may unclip the lanyard for an awkward to position shot. Then clip it on again straight after.

 

The only time it deliberately dangles on the lanyard is for short periods during ascent, such as while sending up an SMB.

 

> a situation more precious than my camera

ie. Needing to rescue myself or other divers. I have needed to rescue others very occasionally and feel the time saved by just being able to let go of the camera rather than spending time to weigh up if the situation warrants letting go of several thousand pounds/dollars/euros does make a difference.

 

For the actual lanyard, I have a length of 6mm braided cord, attached either end to the housing and with a large stainless carabiner in the middle. Maximum dangle is about 45cm. I wouldn't trust a single plastic fastex buckle to not self-release.

[jlaity]

I assume it’s the camera on the left in the top photo? Do you have three lanyards? I always hold my (large SLR) camera rig while diving unless there’s an emergency. The lanyard is just there in case it gets dropped. I’ve never dropped a camera but I’ve dropped a light at the oil rigs. Watched it spiral down to the briny deep for minutes. 

[hedonist222]

17 minutes ago, jlaity said:

I assume it’s the camera on the left in the top photo? Do you have three lanyards? I always hold my (large SLR) camera rig while diving unless there’s an emergency. The lanyard is just there in case it gets dropped. I’ve never dropped a camera but I’ve dropped a light at the oil rigs. Watched it spiral down to the briny deep for minutes. 

 

Yes. Camera on the left. 

The symmetrical twin lanyard attach to my person during the dive. The third lateral/horizontal is for the sole purpose of carrying the unit. 

 

Why do you carry the rig during the entire dive if it's attached to you? 

In my opinion, it's unnecessary duress and you're better off getting a sturdy lanyard system to relieve your from needing to hold your camera the entire dive. 

 

I only manhandle the rig when I'm taking a photo. Otherwise it's secured to my person via the industrial-grade lanyards. In my instance, longer than required. 

 

The only issue is that my lanyard attachments are too long for muck diving when in close proximity to the sea bed or during tight quarters. 

My issue is easily resolved with my solution above or a shorter lanyard pair. 

 

My true reason for starting this thread was to raise this for divers unaware of this scenario and for fruitful discussions. 

 

 

 

Edited September 15 by hedonist222

[hedonist222]

43 minutes ago, John Liddiard said:

I keep my camera attached to me on a lanyard. But during the dive that is not for convenience - I would never let go of it except to avert a situation more precious than my camera. Occasionally I may unclip the lanyard for an awkward to position shot. Then clip it on again straight after.

 

The only time it deliberately dangles on the lanyard is for short periods during ascent, such as while sending up an SMB.

 

> a situation more precious than my camera

ie. Needing to rescue myself or other divers. I have needed to rescue others very occasionally and feel the time saved by just being able to let go of the camera rather than spending time to weigh up if the situation warrants letting go of several thousand pounds/dollars/euros does make a difference.

 

For the actual lanyard, I have a length of 6mm braided cord, attached either end to the housing and with a large stainless carabiner in the middle. Maximum dangle is about 45cm. I wouldn't trust a single plastic fastex buckle to not self-release.

 

Hi John

I wasn't able to visualize what you expressed. 

In spite of your tether, you still hold your unit with your hands while diving? 

[Dave_Hicks]

While it seems to me to be utterly mad to drag a DSLR sized camera around dangling on a tether, I guess there are different diving styles. I spend most of my time diving very close to the terrain. Usually 6 - 12 inches, maybe less while muck diving. Obviously dangling a camera is not going to work. My primary dive light is also attached to my camera, so I need to be pointing the camera to see. (Note: I mostly dive in the PNW around Puget Sound / BC and you need a light 95% of the time for both illumination and buddy visibility)

 

However, if you need your hands free during typical diving situations then you are just not a good diver. With proper buoyancy control and trim, you don't need your hands. Hands and arms fluttering around waste energy and increase air consumption. The argument that you need hands free for "situational awareness" is nuts. I'd hate to see that person driving a car with their arms flapping around all the time. 

 

I have a lanyard always attached even though I am holding the camera. You are one emergency situation away from losing your camera if it's not clipped on. And I have had to assist or rescue other divers many times. I frequently dive in strong currents ascending buoy lines and often shoot DSMBs, so I need the camera clipped on and hands free on ascents. 

[hedonist222]

56 minutes ago, Dave_Hicks said:

While it seems to me to be utterly mad to drag a DSLR sized camera around dangling on a tether, I guess there are different diving styles. I spend most of my time diving very close to the terrain. Usually 6 - 12 inches, maybe less while muck diving. Obviously dangling a camera is not going to work. My primary dive light is also attached to my camera, so I need to be pointing the camera to see. (Note: I mostly dive in the PNW around Puget Sound / BC and you need a light 95% of the time for both illumination and buddy visibility)

 

However, if you need your hands free during typical diving situations then you are just not a good diver. With proper buoyancy control and trim, you don't need your hands. Hands and arms fluttering around waste energy and increase air consumption. The argument that you need hands free for "situational awareness" is nuts. I'd hate to see that person driving a car with their arms flapping around all the time. 

 

I have a lanyard always attached even though I am holding the camera. You are one emergency situation away from losing your camera if it's not clipped on. And I have had to assist or rescue other divers many times. I frequently dive in strong currents ascending buoy lines and often shoot DSMBs, so I need the camera clipped on and hands free on ascents. 

 

Dave, your post appears to be posted haphazardly. 

 

Mods, the above could harm current and future divers. There are many flaws and poor opinions passed off as sound advice that will harm others. 

 

I kindly request you exercise good judgment by moderating this post. 

 

Dave, for your own wellbeing, I urge you to consult with a dive professional.

 

Out of transparency, I have reported this post to the moderators because it contains emotional and detrimental advice that may me harmful to the public. 

 

 

Edited September 15 by hedonist222

[Dave_Hicks]

20 minutes ago, hedonist222 said:

 

Dave, your post appears to be posted haphazardly. 

 

Mods, the above could harm current and future divers. There are many flaws and poor opinions passed off as sound advice that will harm others. 

 

I kindly request you exercise good judgment by moderating this post. 

 

Dave, for your own wellbeing, I urge you to consult with a dive professional.

 

Out of transparency, I have reported this post to the moderators because it contains emotional and detrimental advice that may me harmful to the public. 

 

 

Perhaps you are missing the point. If you observe a great diver they usually have their arms crossed in front of them. Add a camera and they hold the handles. My point is your hands are not needed to maintain trim and buoyancy. 

 

I am unclear on what you find to be a such breach of safe diving practices. However I don't want an online spat so this is the last I will comment on this topic. 

[Davide DB]

Guys, come on!

Can't you argue over a lanyard?

Let's avoid getting personal.

 

 

 

 

[hedonist222]

13 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

Guys, come on!

Can't you argue over a lanyard?

Let's avoid getting personal.

 

 

 

 

 

Davide, is the above ddressed to me? I hope not becausen i did not argue or get personal. I did neither but appear to be lumped into a Neanderthal grouping for sake of ease.

 

Is your post in your personal capacity? on in your Super Moderator capacity? Please specify as you carry a responsibility. 

 

If the former, then I can disregard, if the latter, then I'm offended and expect an apology. 

 

I note in advance that you were catty with me earlier. 

When you said "while I saved physical and mental energy" in response to me saying these particular words earlier. Were you suggesting that because of your inability to multi-task, that it's better to reduce competency to protect a disposable camera? 

 

Shouldn't you be saying that integrity of dive safety trumps everything? 

 

Are you being catty in your personal presence or super moderator presence? Nether are accepted but the former is in more poor character.

 

Quoted below for utmost clarity. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Davide DB said:

 

I felt the same way until I irretrievably scratched my WWL-B which crawled on the bottom and banged on the rocks while I saved physical and mental energy by fluttering naively on the reef.
 

 

[Davide DB]

I think we're going a bit far with the language, and it's getting out of hand for everyone, including me.

I don't think I'm a robot, capable of being 100% user or 100% moderator. That's not how it work. I'm just a regular person who contributes with their own experiences to the forum.

I wasn't trying to be rude, and I didn't think my post was rude. I was just trying to show sympathy for your post, which was written in a funny way.

Regarding the original question, several users answered that they always hold it for various reasons, including dive safety and the fear of ruining or losing it. Perhaps Dave was more direct, but it doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

 

That's it.

 

 

[JayceeB]

Is there really a single right way to carry a camera underwater?  I dive with a variety of seasoned dive photographers, and they all do it differently.  I say carry it in a manner that works for you, and you'll be doing it the right way. 

 

I do it all kine ways, depending on the situation.  I know the original post was regarding muck diving, but here's what I do in various dive scenarios.

 

Shore Diving:

I carry mine to the beach using two short hand-braided lanyards on each side attached to my D-rings.  If one lanyard fails, the other lanyard will still prevent my rig from dropping to the ground.  Once in the water, I detach both lanyards and carry it...sometimes with one hand, sometimes with both hands. 

 

Offshore:

If I'm offshore, I keep it connected with a short hand lanyard.  No BCD, so no D-rings.  No strobe arms for this scenario.

 

Blackwater:

On Blackwater, I use my D-ring lanyards when first jumping in, then switch to a short hand lanyard

 

Boat Diving:

I leave my camera attached to to my D-ring lanyards when first jumping in, then detach and adjust strobe arms and remove the dome port cover.  When ascending, I attach to my D-ring lanyards for safety stop and/or SMB deployment.

Edited September 15 by JayceeB

[hellhole]

erh... i never use a lanyard attached to my body. i only have one across the housing which i carry like a briefcase or like a lady on the elbow 😄

 

the most i have are 2 rings that are on the camera that i attach to my bcd in the odd change i need to deploy a smb.

 

[stiebs]

Other than the direction this thread has turned to, this is an interesting discussion. I have hardly ever considered using a lanyard for anything other than stowing my camera at the the of the dive.

 

From the moment I jump in with camera in hand, or it's handed to me from the boat, it stays in my hands without ever being tethered.

 

I have a paracord handle-type tether with a boltsnap on each end. Before the dive, it is a attached across the handles, and is used as a carry strap. At the start of the dive I usually disconnect one boltsnap and attach it to the other one, creating a loop keeping the tether out of the way.

 

At the start of ascent, I fold in the strobe arms, and hang my rig off my crotch D-ring using tether. Since a friend dropped his camera this way, I also use double-ender as well as the tether.

 

My camera rig weighs about 8kg dry depending on macro/wide-angle setup, but is pretty much neutrally buoyant so I can let it go quite happily. I've on occasion used the 10s shutter time to take selfies 🙂

 

Even in strong current in Komodo taking photos of mantas while attached to a reef hook, for the most part I didn't tether the camera to myself.

 

 

 

[jlaity]

I like a lanyard when I’m in deep water (oil rig or black water.) But I’ve seen a camera (and other gear) get dropped near a boat several times, leading to a search and recovery dive after that.