Muck diving & camera tether length issue

[Architeuthis]

It is, of course and as always, a matter of personal preference. The diving style of hedonist must be very special, I have, so far, never seen an UW-photographer diving like this. Maybe a photo exists (I mean this serious, just interested to see how it looks, maybe I can then understand better what the reason is)?

 

I cannot imagine how I drag a complete system camera rig behind me, just attached via one or two lanyards. Even when no flashes would be attached. With a GoPro this is o.k., but not a huge rig...

Second thing is what are divers without camera doing with their hands? Many have them entangled before their body, some entangled at the chest. There is no real use for the hands during most of the time. The two handles of the rig are the natural places where to put the hands, so they get some use...

I only release the camera while I am e.g. setting a buoy. Then the rig hangs on the lanyard (interesting to hear from Dave that he has fabricated a backup (photo?); the lanyard of Lisi, my wife, already once broke during setting a buoy, but I could rescue the rig instantly, as I was close to her).

Additional use of lanyard is, of course, for all kind of emergency. I clip the rig to a D-ring on my vest immediately after I got it from e.g. people on a boat and I clip it out just before handling it over back to the boat after the dive. The lanyard is, in fact, seldom used, it is mostly for backup purpose..

 

 

Wolfgang

Edited September 16, 2024 by Architeuthis

[fruehaufsteher2]

15 hours ago, Dave_Hicks said:

Use a coiled lanyard. Problem solved. I reinforce mine with a loop of 4mm bungie snaked through the coils as I've had these coils detach after some years of use.

 

I am surprised that the TE feels so attacked. I think we've certainly had sharp personal attacks here in the forum, but I don't recognize any such attacks in this thread. Hopefully we can get back to the topic at hand, which I think is very interesting.
I do 2/3 freediving and 1/3 scuba. I use a coiled lanyard as described by @Dave_Hicks, which alternatively acts as a hand strap or as an attachment to the BCD. Even though the instructors on the boat and fellow divers are always concerned, the camera has never been in danger of being lost.
Important side effect: My camera is negatively buoyant (no float arms for the flash). I use it as part of my own buoyancy control. If I really had to come up faster when freediving, I would rather drop the camera and have half a kilo more buoyancy.
When swimming fast (manta rays, whale sharks, humpback whales...) I hold the camera with one hand under my belly, where it has the least drag in the water. 

Edited September 16, 2024 by fruehaufsteher2

[hedonist222]

12 hours ago, stiebs said:

... this is an interesting discussion. I have hardly ever considered using a lanyard for anything other than stowing my camera at the the of the dive.

 

From the moment I jump in with camera in hand, or it's handed to me from the boat, it stays in my hands without ever being tethered.

 

 

I suppose what I reveal now will explain the need to be hands-free.

 

As blasphemous as this will sound on an underwater photography forum, I sometimes do a handful of dives without even turning my camera on. Yep. If the perfect scene does not present itself, I will not even bother taking a picture. I'm okay with finding cool stuff but not getting a photograph. 

Other reasons I'll not bother taking a picture :

 

Too much backscatter, something I've photographed before, I'm indifferent to nudis and will only take pictures of ones I find appealing (that's usually 1 out of every 10 different species), or difficulty from current or surge.

 

So being able to stow my rig while I hunt for little critters is important. 

 

Also, most times I'll be wielding a magnifying glass and a reef stick and therefore need my hands free of a rig. Not throughout the dive though, only in certain areas where I'm hunting for something. 

 

 

 

 

[Floris Bennema]

I like a minimum of lines etc. Therefore I use a thin short rope as on a hand-held (!) camera to avoid losing the camera.

 

In more challenging situations, like when I am expect to shoot up a SMB, I use a longer laynard, waiting for use on a D-ring.  The lanyard I construct myself, most carabiners are to narrow to attach to a strobe arm and are quiet heavy. So I use the cheapest aluminium climbing carabiners I can get and fixate them to a rather thick rope.

However, I  have to make a new one, my previous lanyard lies on a liveboard in Indonesia..

Edited September 16, 2024 by Floris Bennema

[hedonist222]

9 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

It is, of course and as always, a matter of personal preference. The diving style of hedonist must be very special, I have, so far, never seen an UW-photographer diving like this. Maybe a photo exists (I mean this serious, just interested to see how it looks, maybe I can then understand better what the reason is)?

 

I cannot imagine how I drag a complete system camera rig behind me, just attached via one or two lanyards. Even when no flashes would be attached. With a GoPro this is o.k., but not a huge rig...

Second thing is what are divers without camera doing with their hands? Many have them entangled before their body, some entangled at the chest. There is no real use for the hands during most of the time. The two handles of the rig are the natural places where to put the hands, so they get some use...

I only release the camera while I am e.g. setting a buoy. Then the rig hangs on the lanyard (interesting to hear from Dave that he has fabricated a backup (photo?); the lanyard of Lisi, my wife, already once broke during setting a buoy, but I could rescue the rig instantly, as I was close to her).

Additional use of lanyard is, of course, for all kind of emergency. I clip the rig to a D-ring on my vest immediately after I got it from e.g. people on a boat and I clip it out just before handling it over back to the boat after the dive. The lanyard is, in fact, seldom used, it is mostly for backup purpose..

 

Wolfgang

 

Just yesterday I was doing a shore dive at a sandy bottom site with no coral. The only life there was shrubs, grass, and seaweed. 

To actually be able to find anything meant getting as close as possible to the finger-high sea grass. With my rig dangling with the length of my lanyards meant I had to hold the camera away from my torso and outwards to my side.

 

This is a photo I found on the internet that depicts what I'm talking about: 

 

My system would be dragging through the sand even at the distance from the sea bed in the below photo. Being able to raise it even 10 cm means I can get closer. Incidentally, yesterday's site resembled this one. 

 

 

[hedonist222]

I found a few photos of me actually raising the camera so it doesn't bang around the dive site. It gets cumbersome after a while.   

 

And another of typical day of foraging. 😄

 

Edited September 16, 2024 by hedonist222

[Dave_Hicks]

9 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

 

I only release the camera while I am e.g. setting a buoy. Then the rig hangs on the lanyard (interesting to hear from Dave that he has fabricated a backup (photo?); the lanyard of Lisi, my wife, already once broke during setting a buoy, but I could rescue the rig instantly, as I was close to her).

 

 

Below is a photo of my reinforced lanyard:

 

I just loop a length of bungie cord around the webbing, thread it inside the coil, and add a couple of small zip ties to keep if tight and flush. I like these lanyards as you can clip it together to keep the camera close or unclip to hold at arm's length. The downside is the flexible coil can sometimes separate from the hard plastic anchor points. I've had it happen a couple of times myself, fortunately not while diving. The bungie provides cheap and clean redundancy.

 

Edited September 16, 2024 by Dave_Hicks

[John Liddiard]

22 hours ago, hedonist222 said:

Hi John

I wasn't able to visualize what you expressed. 

In spite of your tether, you still hold your unit with your hands while diving? 

Yes, the lanyard clips to a right shoulder D-ring and I hold it in front of me or off to one side with both hands or one hand, which leaves it pretty much horizontal with me when in a nice horizontal trim in most situations. The camera is weighted a little negative, so moving it in and out can modify my angle in the water.

 

If I let go of it, the base of the camera will be about an arm's length below me. If I am upright in the water, it will dangle at sporran height, so clear of my chest, but not in the way of my legs.

 

If freediving, I wear the lanyard as a camera strap over my neck which keeps the camera tighter to me.

[TimG]

1 hour ago, John Liddiard said:

it will dangle at sporran height

 

Now there's a phrase that you don't read so often....... 

[Dave_Hicks]

20 minutes ago, TimG said:

 

Now there's a phrase that you don't read so often....... 

Had to look up that word! 

[TimG]

15 minutes ago, Dave_Hicks said:

Had to look up that word! 

.. and you might now regret that. It's an image that is very hard to get out of your mind.....

[Floris Bennema]

I looked at sidemount solutions. The problem is you need a camera on each side.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2024 by Floris Bennema

[dhaas]

 

No lanyard except in situations too deep to go retrieve it 🙂

 

Isla Guadalupe, 200' deep below cage windows is one. Drop it and no one's going to go get it for you on a bounce dive...LOL......

 

Snorkeling or deep water where you drop it it's gone, yeah maybe.....

 

Never used one even with large SLR set ups and dual Ikelite DS160 strobes. Always just got in the way for me.....When asked I'd reply: "My camera is either on the boat or in my hands.If need be to help my dive buddy (spouse) it's much less valuable! " 

 

Those coiled lanyards with plastic ends I've seen crushed, break and let go, etc. I give them away to small point and shoot housing users. I do like adding the bungie cord through the coils though.....

 

Just one old guy's opinion!

 

David Haas

 

Edited September 22, 2024 by dhaas

[Litos]

What about making your gear slightly bouyant?

[Dave_Hicks]

I would have lost at least 3-4 camera rigs over the years if I didn't have a lanyard clipped on to my camera all the time. That's just in-water rescue assists with other divers where I needed both hands and all my focus. 

 

I do a lot of diving in high current scenarios where you start or end the dive holding on or pulling yourself on an anchor line which is a hell of a lot easier with both hands. And I don't know how you deploy a DSMB while holding on to a camera.

 

Unless you are only doing very casual diving in calm seas and clear water, I think you need to have a lanyard. 

Edited Friday at 05:54 PM by Dave_Hicks

[TimG]

18 minutes ago, Litos said:

What about making your gear slightly bouyant?

 

I think that's a reasonable idea if you're diving on deep walls where, if you let the camera go..... it's gone.

 

But on dives where there is reachable bottom and you let the camera go when positively buoyant it will be very hard indeed to find if it gets to the surface. 

 

I aim to have my system just very slightly negatively buoyant. 

[OneYellowTang]

Lots of possible comments here, but I'll just share something tangential...

Years ago (think "film" days), when I did quite a bit of diving in Thailand, I was on the old Ocean Rover when Mark Strickland was the cruise director/photo pro. He would dive with two big rigs... gently putting one down on the substrate and leaving it there (with a sign on the camera saying "I put this here, please leave it..."). He'd shoot one camera until ~36 exposures taken, then go shoot the other camera, before bringing both to the surface at the end of the dive.

Two cameras, no lanyards, often even in a bit of current.

Edited Friday at 06:38 PM by OneYellowTang

[Dave_Hicks]

3 minutes ago, OneYellowTang said:

Lots of possible comments here, but I'll just share something tangential...

Years ago (think "film" days), when I did quite a bit of diving in Thailand, I was on the old Ocean Rover when Mark Strickland was the cruise director/photo pro. He would dive with two big rigs... gently putting one down on the substrate and leaving it there (with a sign on the camera saying "I put this here, please leave it..."). He'd shoot one camera until ~36 exposures taken, then go shoot the other camera, before bringing both to the surface at the end of the dive.

Two cameras, no lanyards, often even in a bit of current.

Sounds like he had the choice of which direction to go and was able to go back and retrieve the extra camera. That is not the case with many dive sites. You go where the current takes you, and even if you can go backwards, you might not find your camera in 5 feet of visibility.

 

As I said, you can have a lot of freedom in calm clear waters. That is not what all scuba diving looks like. Even then you are one out-of-air or buoyancy emergency in your dive group from losing your camera. 

[CaolIla]

My camera is  slightly posiively buoyant. 

Same for the goPro and light from my wife.

Last year.. I tooke some picture from my wife with a turtle  but the guide had the GoPro from my wife  1 minute before... the result my wife didn't attached it again... after I tooked  the photo... wouah where is the go pro.?

It was in Bunaken in Turtle City a wall... 😞 

She started with the guide searching direction bottom  I goes up....  at the surface I ask the boat to come.... The crew looked at the surface and found it....  Yes Yes Yes ... it was the first day of a 3 week trip.... I can'i imagine 3 weeks without...


--> Allways a little bit positive it's easier to find something at the surface... 

 

[Chris Ross]

I once dived with a camera that was slightly positive (new configuration) and found it really magnified the tendency for the dome to want to twist upwards, was quite a pain to use on that dive.  It was maybe about 100 gram buoyant at most.  I'm always clipped to my camera with a lanyard.

[Dave_Hicks]

45 minutes ago, Chris Ross said:

I once dived with a camera that was slightly positive (new configuration) and found it really magnified the tendency for the dome to want to twist upwards, was quite a pain to use on that dive.  It was maybe about 100 gram buoyant at most.  I'm always clipped to my camera with a lanyard.

Agreed, I prefer a slightly negative rig. I don't want it floating in my face or trying to escape to the surface.

[JohnD]

On 9/15/2024 at 9:41 AM, hedonist222 said:

 

 

 

I still wanna know why one should always hold a camera while diving.. 😛

 

Teasing aside. 

I am on the other end of the spectrum. 

 

You should free yourself physically and mentally as much as possible when diving. The physical and mental effort you exert (waste) in unnecessarily  holding a camera is effort/energy you could've used in garnering more situational awareness.

My favorite is the CRL3HD underwater camera lanyard by Cetacea.  It can be snapped short or unsnapped to be long and is very strong and durable. I have used it for years and it is still going strong.

 

I always use a tether/lanyard but it is really just for a situation where I need to "drop" the camera for some reason and don't want it going off on its own dive.

 

I hold the camera during the dive because don't need a camera banging into me or gear, or the strobe arms getting twisted around or fiber optic cords getting pulled out or ports getting scratched and all of these seem much more likely with a dangling camera.

 

While not actively "using" the camera, I may hold the housing with one hand or both hands and sometimes I sort of cradle it against my chest.  Currents may dictate how I hold it.  This really requires little mental effort and if I need to be free to help someone with a loose tank strap or something, then I will let the camera dangle or float as the case may be. 

 

Some  shore entries require a bit more thought to keep hands free in case of a fall, but still have some protection for the housing.  The iron shore entries on Bonaire always had/have me a bit anxious.  I have on ocassion used the cetacea in its snapped position on rough shore entries figuring that if i went down i might be able to protect myself and the housing.  thankfully I have not really tested the theory.

[CaolIla]

7 hours ago, Dave_Hicks said:

Agreed, I prefer a slightly negative rig. I don't want it floating in my face or trying to escape to the surface.

I precise when I say slightly positive... it is that I can film me in front of the camera It is swimming... and go slowly very slowy up.

If all is in the good position I only need hold the camera with two fingers... not a litle rotation  it's very comfortable to film with it.

I allways see the guide impressed when I in the front of the camera when it is floating  alone, after the dive I have some remarks... "woaouh your reag have a perfect beouncy"    ...but I said allways positive not negative... 😉