9 hours ago, Chris Ross said:

I really think the fundamental problem is the response curve of the camera. That's not a fault rather that is how they are designed. The way around I think is to reduce the exposure. Easiest is lowering the ISO if possible, but looks like you at ISO 50 already, so maybe place a grey card on the wall and measure brightness off that or double the strobe's distance from the wall. You might run into problems at the low power end, but within the limitations of equipment you have available seems like this might be the best solution. You would need separate sets of measurements for the high and low powers.

Also as I understand it ISO 50 on the Z8 is extended ISO which is achieved by over exposing the image and pulling the exposure down which tends to blow highlights. Maybe for the Z8 base ISO might be a better option?

Some good ideas there. I might experiment with more range and a gray card.

On 1/28/2026 at 7:34 AM, Adventurer said:

Michi, if I read Dave & Killiii correctly than the Maxi is not what you are looking for and simply unable to deliver at these fps.

The Backscatter HF-1 is able to do it (I own and tested this) but there is brightness variation and quite a few blackout frames every few cycles in burst shooting.

The only strobe which is currently doing what you are looking for and which delivers zero light variations and zero blackout frames at high burst for more than 100 frames is the MARELUX Apollo III 2.0 in MTL Mode - which I also happen to own. I would subscribe to everything Henley Spiers wrote in his review:

DivePhotoGuide

First Impressions of the Marelux Apollo III 2.0 Strobe

Both my Backscatter HF-1 and Apollo deliver warmer light than my friends Seacam and old Retra, with a very simple fix I received from Hydronalin, Germany.

Hi, @Adventurer thx a lot for your personal advice and feedback! I guess for now the Apollo is the best product for me

@Dave_Hicks thx for all the effort so far - I appreciate this! it would be still nice if you can set your Camera to 10/15 frames per second and see what the Maxi does compared to the Backscatter a simillar decent power level! If this is not possible, just Let me know (i can Imagine how time consuming These Tests can be…)!

@Kiliii Yuyan thx for your great Test and all the effort - very interesting

I understand with a passing shark 5 shots per second or so is great but with for example a blenny eating algae from Seagrass and catching that exact Moment of the bite a high burst mode changes Everything…

Edited February 2Feb 2 by Michi

I took a break from shooting strobes at walls and went diving!

The assignment this time was CFWA with a 15mm fisheye lens and the Maxi's with a warming filter and reduction rings. Visibility was a pretty hazy silty 15ft / 5m so reduction rings were a big help.

Nikon Z8 w/8-15mm Fisheye lens, f11@1/30s iso400, Pair of Retra Maxi strobes with 4500k filters

Nikon Z8 w/8-15mm Fisheye lens, f11@1/30s iso400, Pair of Retra Maxi strobes with 4500k filters

Nikon Z8 w/8-15mm Fisheye lens, f11@1/40s iso640, Pair of Retra Maxi strobes with 4500k filters

Dive buddy Nirupam testing out a Nikon ZR / Ikelite setup.

22 hours ago, Dave_Hicks said:

I took a break from shooting strobes at walls and went diving!

😃As much fun as it is to measure and research new stuff, not much point to it unless we go diving!

On 2/2/2026 at 6:46 PM, Dave_Hicks said:

Maxi's with a warming filter and reduction rings. Visibility was a pretty hazy silty 15ft / 5m so reduction rings were a big help.

Thanks for the great images and review. I was wondering if you could elaborate on stacking reduction rings with the warming filter. Are both of these the standard ones from Retra and can you put them in series? I also dive in meh visibility water and so was wondering how to lower the color temp while also reducing backscatter. Thanks!

1 hour ago, ColdDarkDiver said:

Thanks for the great images and review. I was wondering if you could elaborate on stacking reduction rings with the warming filter. Are both of these the standard ones from Retra and can you put them in series? I also dive in meh visibility water and so was wondering how to lower the color temp while also reducing backscatter. Thanks!

I made my own reduction rings that accommodate a diy filter. Message me if you want more details.

I spent a little time today Re-Flashing some wall space with an aim to create more separation between the three strobes at the highest power levels. The tests so far have not shown a lot of gradation, possibly due to the short distance, low ISO, and small aperture.

I repositioned at 150cm from the wall, set ISO to the Z8 base of iso64, and aperture of f16. I only shot the Boost, +2, +1, and Full settings on the three strobes, as applicable. Photoshop luminance Mean and Point measures collected. I calculated a delta of the Mean measurements with the Maxi Boost mode as 100% and other results relative to that.

There is indeed a greater spread between the measured results using this method, supporting the idea that the previous settings were probably losing fidelity and flattening the results.

TLDR;

• Maxi@Boost > HF-1@+2

• Maxi@+4 (aka Full) > HF-1@Full

• HF-1@Full > Atom@Full

Here are the results and visualization:

7 hours ago, Dave_Hicks said:

supporting the idea that the previous settings were probably losing fidelity and flattening the results.

I think this supports also the 5% measurement and test + item variation delta I previously pointed out. Also a fresh from the factory strobe will be brighter than one that already has fired a few hundred shots. So no need in beating a dead horse and over-doing and over-interpreting these land tests.

What would be interesting though is a beam (1-1.5m) wall test submerged in water to see the different dome and reflector designs come into play.

4 hours ago, Adventurer said:

I think this supports also the 5% measurement and test + item variation delta I previously pointed out. Also a fresh from the factory strobe will be brighter than one that already has fired a few hundred shots. So no need in beating a dead horse and over-doing and over-interpreting these land tests.

What would be interesting though is a beam (1-1.5m) wall test submerged in water to see the different dome and reflector designs come into play.

All of the strobes have fired at least 1000 times now, HF-1 tens of thousands at least. I won't be doing any static in water testing.

On 1/29/2026 at 2:55 AM, Chris Ross said:

If I am reading things correctly Killiii's test shows some interesting points.

First he tests at 8 FPS on the Apollo III in MTL at 12 = (max power) and it illuminates every frame and drops one stop in power by frame 8. It stabilises with constant brightness when power is reduced to 9 . The important thing to note that full power in MTL mode is about 1/2 the max output of the strobe. So it is one stop down from max power in regular manual mode.

The Retra Maxi goes close to the this when set to -4 power- it starts brighter and drops to lower than the the output from the Apollo after a few frames. I'm wondering if the test would be more informative if you set the Retra Maxi at a power to achieve the same light level as the Apollo III at the 9 setting? It should give a few more frames at that setting compared to what was achieved in the test.

The test then goes on to compare the Apollo III and Maxi at 6 FPS with a diffuser on the Apollo as it really needs one to get close on light quality. Settings are 12 and -6 respectively and the light output is the same by the light meter reading.

To me it seems any comparison should be at a setting where light output is constant and equal. If you want high speed shooting then only getting the strobe output for the first frame or two kind of defeats the purpose. Whether one strobe is at half power and the other at 1/4 is somewhat irrelevant, to get a true comparison you want the same amount of light falling on your subject.

I ran the test you're describing 2 years ago between the HF-1 and Apollo III (basically, normalized power output after the initial dimming period) to see what the max power each strobe could achieve in a continuous shooting scenario at 3fps, 6fps and 12fps was. Here's the results (also in the shared google spreadsheet that's pinned at the top of this forum). My results were that in actuality the HF-1 puts out more power at each frame rate than the Marelux Apollo 3 despite the latter marketing its MTL feature heavily. (I have no incentive to make this up -- I own the Marelux Apollo 3 and have been trying to sell my 2 units since.. 2 years ago :))

Strobe	GN @ 3fps	GN @ 6fps	GN @ 12fps
Backscatter HF-1	16	11	8.5
Backscatter MF-2	13	2.8	2.8
Supe D-Pro	13	10	8
Marelux Apollo 3	11	7.1	6.3
Ikelite DS230	11	0	0
Inon S-220	10	5.6	5
Sea & Sea YS-D3	9	4.5	4.5
Seacam 160D
Retra Pro Max

6 hours ago, DreiFish said:

Marelux Apollo 3 despite the latter marketing its MTL feature heavily. (I have no incentive to make this up -- I own the Marelux Apollo 3 and have been trying to sell my 2 units since.. 2 years ago :))

Hi Dreifish, I think your Apollo III units where not functioning OK or your test setup was faulty in some way. I cannot confirm the way you trashed that strobe, having now shot this and the HF-1 for two years. I bought the HF-1 because of your disruptive Excel sheet back in the days.

In fact my HF-1 does not deliver the power you claimed at high frame rates and does many blackout frames and light variation.

You may want to reach out to your dealer or Marelux to get your strobes replaced.

2 hours ago, Adventurer said:

Hi Dreifish, I think your Apollo III units where not functioning OK or your test setup was faulty in some way. I cannot confirm the way you trashed that strobe, having now shot this and the HF-1 for two years. I bought the HF-1 because of your disruptive Excel sheet back in the days.

In fact my HF-1 does not deliver the power you claimed at high frame rates and does many blackout frames and light variation.

You may want to reach out to your dealer or Marelux to get your strobes replaced.

Hi @Adventurer , I believe you have Apollo III 2.0 strobes based on your previous posts, the data from @DreiFish mentions Apollo III, not Apollo III 2.0 - is this referring to the same model strobes?