INON and AOI Wide Angle Wet Lenses for Gopro's

[canislupus]

Hello,

The Backscatter version is on the way.😁

[Davide DB]

1 hour ago, canislupus said:

Hello,

The Backscatter version is on the way.😁

 

Give us some feedback when arrives with some photos and of course some uw clips when you will use it 🙂

 

[Davide DB]

AOI Quick Release Adapters for UWL-03 and UCL-03 wet lenses are now compatible with the DJI Action 4 or 3 and the Insta 360 Ace and Ace Pro.

 

 

[bghazzal]

As a heads up, photographer Jun Shimizu recently posted a very interesting comparative test on Japanese online publication Oceana.ne.jp, pairing the AOI UWL-03 with the following action cams:

GoPro12 Black
GoPro13 Black
Insta360 Ace Pro
DJI Osmo Action4 (the DJI Action 5 came out as the article was being published, so not tested)
 

The full article, in Japanese, is available here:
https://oceana.ne.jp/diving/diving-equipment/144648
 

The tests were based on 4K video footage, 16:9 aspect ratios, wide mode - and aimed to compare auto-color / light management and general image quality.
The tester left the other settings to default auto.
 

Tests are what they are, without a massive difference between cameras but enough to differentiate them, especially in the handling of blues
(personal sidenote/disclaimer - I have little interest in auto-wb / auto-colors, being convinced that underwater, beyond the shallows, cameras always require working in post to give the best results possible, and that a flat profile + adequately designed filter is generally the best way to help rebalance colours for uw video - something developped here)
 

However, and this is where it gets very interesting, while the results are somewhat similar on all four cams, there appears to be a marked difference in corner sharpness / corner distortion on the DJI Action 4, which, in Jun Shimizu's video tests, seems to have terribly soft corners when paired with the AOI UWL03 wide lens...
 

I’ll let you judge the captures for yourselves:
(images by Jun SHIMIZU, source Oceana.ne.jp)

 

GoPro12

 

GoPro 13

 

Insta360AcePro

 

DJI Action4 (!)

GoPro12

GoPro13

 

Insta360 AcePro

DJI Action4 (!)

GoPro12

GoPro13

 

GoPro13

 

Insta360 AcePro

 

DJI Action4 (!)

 

 

To make things clearer, if we focus on the DJI Action4 horizontal/landscape test results only:

DJI Action4 + AOI UWL-03, 4K 16:9 video captures, corner distortion...

 

Ouch, right?
Kind of defeats the purpose of the AOI UWL-03, if a better corner quality cannot be obtained, unfortunately.
 

As is, such test results come as a bit of shock for people like myself who'd managed to convince themselves that the DJI Action range was currently the most promising option for underwater videography.

However, before we relegate the DJI to non-compatible with the AOI wide lens and also as pretty-hopeless-for-underwater-video category, please note that there is a important caveat to these test results
 

Given the number of field of view / crop options, it's not really 100% clear what settings were used for these rather unforgiving tests

The tester mentions that he just set to 4K video, wide and 16:9 aspect ratio, but left the other settings on default auto settings.

When it comes to the soft corners of the DJI action 4 the article mentions that the soft corners already appeared when setting to wide on land.
Having noticed the issue, he mentions trying a narrower fov to try to improve corners on this camera, but the corner deformation problem remained.

So this could mean an error in / or suboptimal settings, or, in the worst case scenario, an actual fov compatibility issue with between DJI Action cams AOI UWL-03...
 

Looking into the DJI Action range fov/crop settings in the manual and also through the gazillion land tests offered by the army of Youtube talking-heads shillfluencers, it seems that the less distorted fov/setting on the Action4/5 would be something called: standard dewarp Rocksteady enabled
 

Not sure if this mouthful of a setting is the one used here, since the article mentions 16:9, wide mode and "auto settings" (but also trying to narrow the fov, which would imply changing the fov settings somehow)  - i’ve asked Jun Shimizu for confirmation of settings used on the Action4, but haven't had an answer yet.

Also, as a reminder, tested here is the Action4, not the newer Action5 (though there's no real reason to expect a radical change in fov/crop settings, from what I've seen).

Lastly, this not mentioned in the article, but the video footage looks handheld individually as opposed to set on a mounting tray (which would explain some fov difference).
However, based on this and other footage, the angle/perspective ratio seems consistent enough to conclude that the Action4 is fov is generally wider, which could explain the corner issue when coupled with the AOI wide lens designed for a narrower fov (in wide mode, at least...)
 

Nonetheless, this is important news for use with the AOI UWL-03 wide lens, and something which should definitely be looked into for UW use with the combo.
 

After seeing these results, I then peeked into available hardware/ lens / fov info for these action cam models.
It's not crystal clear, but the info I could find on action cam lenses, paired with the equivalent of GoPro's wide mode  (which is recommended with the AOI UWL 03) and sensor data is as follows:

(note: fov angles given are probably based on horizontal measurements, as this is not specified for other cams than the GoPros, which has the most precise specs)

- Action5 = 155° (f/2.8), 116° in standard dewarp Rocksteady enabled (1/1.3-inch sensor )

- GoPro13 = 109° (wide, hypersmooth) (f/2.5) (1/1.9-inch sensor)

- Ace Insta360Pro = ???? 155° field of view ? (f/2.6) - other modes? MaxView 170° (1/1.3-inch sensor) (if anyone has more precise info on the ACE360, please share it)

As a reminder, AOI's slightly sibylline specs for the AOI UWL-03 wide lens indicate that with the GoPro (model unspecified), the AOI lens should give a magnification of 0.73x and also widens the underwater fov to 140°.

Bit of a headache coming up, so I'll leave you guys to work it out... 😅


In conclusion, further UW testing is definitely in order for the DJI Action4/5 range, especially with AOI UWL-03 Wide lens, and prospective DJI Action5 + AOI UWL-03 users should definitely look into the corner / fov issue before pulling the trigger...


****
EDIT - looking into additional test footage from other sources, the DJI Action 4's difference in fov seems to be confirmed by other side-by-side comparaisons found online.
The DJI Action4 is noticeably wider (in wide mode, at least) which could explain corner distortion/softness issues when paired with a wide lens such as the AOI UWL-03... 😮

There are plenty of side-by-side comparaisons on the shillfluencer YT channels, but here's a random example capture (source ) showing the fov difference (without the AOI wide lens)

 

 

or on this one here (source), also showing the fov difference in wide mode (again without the AOI wide lens)



All that said and done, even if the DJI Action4 does have a wider fov in wide mode than the GoPro and Insta360 Ace Pro - which could be causing a marked corner distortion when coupled with a wide lens designed for an narrower fov - it would be good to know if there are other fov on the Action 4/5 which allow it to be used with the lens efficiently without degrading the corners this way.

Let's hope we can have some dedicated confirmation tests / footage for the DJI Action 4/5 + AOI UWL-03 lens combo in the near future, just to know what works (or doesn't) !

 

cheers

 

ben

Edited October 13 by bghazzal

[bghazzal]

As an important note,  the DJI Action 5 camera uses a "color temperature sensor" for auto wb and colour adjustements, which is located on the front of the camera, as shown here in the manual's diagram (item 5, basically inside the "O" letter of the word Osmo, under the lens)

 

This seems to have been taken into account in wide lens mount design, with a cutout on the mount, as shown here:
 

 

Hopefully this design is effective and the lens base is wide enough to let sufficient light hit the sensor.

If it doesn't and the lens actually covers the colour sensor, this will mean that the DJI Action5 can't be used with auto-wb / auto colors settings (not that you should underwater anyway 😉) when coupled with AOI / Backscatter (and potentially Inon?) type lenses...

There is also a pressure sensor, but AFAIK this is not coupled with wb/colour correction, unlike the late Paralenz cameras, for example.

Let's hope we can get confirmation on this as well 🤞

 

Edited October 14 by bghazzal

[Nando Diver]

On 10/14/2024 at 2:51 AM, bghazzal said:

As an important note,  the DJI Action 5 camera uses a "color temperature sensor" for auto wb and colour adjustements, which is located on the front of the camera, as shown here in the manual's diagram (item 5, basically inside the "O" letter of the word Osmo, under the lens)

 

This seems to have been taken into account in wide lens mount design, with a cutout on the mount, as shown here:
 

 

Hopefully this design is effective and the lens base is wide enough to let sufficient light hit the sensor.

If it doesn't and the lens actually covers the colour sensor, this will mean that the DJI Action5 can't be used with auto-wb / auto colors settings (not that you should underwater anyway 😉) when coupled with AOI / Backscatter (and potentially Inon?) type lenses...

There is also a pressure sensor, but AFAIK this is not coupled with wb/colour correction, unlike the late Paralenz cameras, for example.

Let's hope we can get confirmation on this as well 🤞

 

I discuss the distortion lens with Osmo5 on the dji forum some time ago

Im glad i went to the  gopro route..

 

https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=319140

 

Regarding the sensor, apparently its not block, see the video at 3m07s 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 15 by Nando Diver

[Davide DB]

You are brave to discuss these things in a general forum. I appreciate your effort. 

Videos shot with the lens confirm the distortion at the corners.

IMHO with a starting FOV of 155 degrees no wet lens will do.

The Osmo Action 4/5 have a narrower "standard" FOV. Perhaps with this FOV the situation changes but we would need to know which FOV was used in all those terrible underwater video.

 

They point out here that the 155 degrees is diagonal and the horizontal FOVs are quite different.

 

https://forum.dji.com/thread-216036-1-1.html

 

Here is a practical comparison. Between standard and wide there is almost no difference.

Too bad. This action camera looked the most promising from an underwater point of view.

 

 

 

 

[Nikolausz]

I'm not surprised that the AOI lens is not compatible with the DJI Action 5 camera. Finally it was optimised to GoPro with smaller sensor and different optical system and different FOV. It's still speculation, but I doubt that the colour temperature sensor will work.

I'm more surprised that the Insta360 ACE Pro is relatively good

[Davide DB]

49 minutes ago, Nikolausz said:

I'm not surprised that the AOI lens is not compatible with the DJI Action 5 camera. Finally it was optimised to GoPro with smaller sensor and different optical system and different FOV. It's still speculation, but I doubt that the colour temperature sensor will work.

I'm more surprised that the Insta360 ACE Pro is relatively good

 

The same guy who wrote the article with the comparison, published this video.

it's a mistery which settings were used and usually they are more inclined to post on social media than explain things.

I call them "TX No RX" Transmit but don't not receive

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/YdYtV1MrrnUQjdkz/

[Nick]

hi everyone...

 

happy to see there is so much interest by users about the action cameras and how they fare with the AOI UWL-03 and hopefully you'll see some with the UCL-03.  

 

let me just put into context why and how the UWL-03 came about and how it can help action camera users.

 

1. the biggest game changer for action camera users is the focal distance, depending on the brand, focal distance is anything from 30 to 50cm. With the UWL-03, users now can get between 8 to 10cm. This translates means for the user of action cam, they are no longer limited to 'landscape' type of shots. You can incorporate a central subject in your story telling or there is no need for a long pole to take a selfie. the old adage "if you think you are close, get even closer" comes to mind...water is over 3000 times more dense than air. So comparing to what is on land vs what is on water will never be a good example. 

2. the lens recovers what is lost to refraction, the wide FOV of the camera is narrowed so this can recover it back to what it was on land. e.g. if at an arms length, you weren't able to fit you and your buddy for a selfie, with the UWL-03 you can.

3. the lens is designed to compensate for some of the distortion that happens when a camera is used on a flat port in water. all cameras experience this sort of distortion, the amount of distortion of course will vary from camera to camera. 

 

so if you are an action camera user, usually a beginner/newbie diver or a casual user or even a content creator, you will find these features a welcome change. 

 

there will be lots of people doing comparisons and we are happy to see these comparisons and everyone will have an opinion with what is good or not. 

 

I'll do another post specifically on DJI Action cam next. 

 

 

[Nick]

UWL-03 + DJI Action 4 or Action 5. 

 

In relation to the above post, feel free to check out posts found in Facebook, Tik Tok by content creators that uses the DJI Action 4 or 5. 

 

Is the lens perfectly suited to the DJI Action 4 or 5, probably not. But then again which lens is? But it could be perfect for your shooting needs. 

 

Does the mount/lens cover the WB sensor? Yes it does. Is it a deal breaker? Depends on your needs. The colour can be fixed in editing and is fairly simple fix but having a subject in frame or a central subject in your video is not something you can fix in post or editing. You either shoot it with the subject in frame or not. Can't fix that in editing. Here is a link to a video i shot in Malaysian waters, i tried to emulate what a beginner would do in terms of settings and shooting skills. Does it capture the essence of the story i want to tell? I think yes. what would i need to give up if i didn't have the lens? Well about 30% narrower field of view or perhaps add another 3 feet of distance from the subject which means softer look. Remember, this video is on FB, which means it is compressed by Meta to optimise your video experience. Here's the link. https://www.facebook.com/721317354/videos/1576069843116591/

 

We are constantly looking to improve but sometimes we just can't change the laws of physics.  

Edited October 17 by Nick

[bghazzal]

Hi Nick and thanks for the input and confirmation.
It's good to know that the lens mount does block the DJI's WB sensor.
For action cams, I shoot in flat profile and WB in post as detailed in this thread here so wasn't concerned about this, but knowing that a lot of action cam users plan on using auto-colors / auto-wb, it's important to know that the lens might affect auto settings in some way.

I actually have the AOI UWL-03 lens, which I tested on my GoPro and like it a lot.
After all these years on the GoPro, I must say focal distance and fov width has not been my primary concern, however corner distortion introduced since the fov change from GP4 to GP5 and up has really been tough to deal with, and my main issue with image quality...
Before the wide lens, I was shooting the GoPro4 in medium fov, and switched to cropped linear since the GoPro5 (examples showing the corner distortion introduced by the change of GoPro fov here).

Which is why the wide lens is a fantastic addition, as it finally solves this corner distortion / softness issue...

Since I'm not really shooting with action cam at the moment, I only tested the lens on quick tests shots when it arrived, while simultaneously testing gel filter options to replace my faithful UR-Pro Cyan.
But even with such quick and dirty tests freediving holding the two GoPros in each hand, I must say results were very convincing, and the GoPro corner issue was finally resolved (the dual lens/non-lens test clip + details on testing parameters in this post here )

That said, I was also considering to renew my action cams and found the DJI Action4, then 5 to be the most promising alternative to GoPros for underwater use.

However, if the DJI Action + wide lens combination re-introduces corner issues that I'm specifically looking to avoid - after putting up with it all these years - then I'm afraid the DJI is no longer an option for me.
This is a little disapointing as I was really looking forward to moving on from GoPro (and the Insta360 Ace pro has other specific issues), and the DJI Action range looked the most promising for underwater videography.

cheers
ben

Edited October 17 by bghazzal

[Nando Diver]

INON Release New Lens for Insta360 and Gopro 11/12/13 working in 8:7 aspect ratio and adapter from SD to ZD

 

INON releases bright and quality “UFL-GR140 ZD (acrylic) ‘ and ’UFL-GR140 Pro ZD (glass)” working well for “8:7” frame/aspect ratio on GoPro®HERO11 or newer and Insta360®Ace Pro “ActionView” that delivers widest field of view without vignetting.
Dedicated lens adapter "ZD Front Mask for HERO12" and "ZD Front Mask for Ace Pro" are released as well.
The “ZD Lens Holder M5” / “ZD Lens Holder S” with a lock to hold the new semi-fisheye lens are released.
With the release of the “ZD Front Mask for HERO12”, existing INON lenses for action cameras have "ZD Mount" version.
An “SD mount” lenses can be converted to ZD mount by customers simply by replacing the original “SD Mount” with an optional ZD Mount.

[Davide DB]

1 hour ago, Nando Diver said:

INON Release New Lens for Insta360 and Gopro 11/12/13 working in 8:7 aspect ratio and adapter from SD to ZD

 

Good News. I'll look forward to see some simple clips

[Elvandar]

Damn, why they had to change the mount to zd, to support the 8:7? 

 

I am interested in the glass version of the 140, but I don't like the idea that to get it, I have to change also the mount, and the 2 adaptor of the lens I already have 

 

Btw, thanks for the update @Nando Diver

[Nando Diver]

UFL-GR140 ZD (acrylic or Glass) 

103.4mm / 4.0in (Diameter)

46.3mm / 1.8in (Length) 

 

Acrylic Weight

Land 426g / 15.0oz
Underwater  218g / 7.6 oz 

Glass Weight

Land 475g/ 16.7oz 
Underwater 262g/ 9.2oz 

 

UFL-G140 SD (OLD MODEL) 

93.4mm / 3.7in (Diameter)

41.8mm / 1.6in (Length) 

Weight Land 300g / 10.6oz
Weight Underwater  153g / 5.4oz 

 

Question

Whats the advantage for underwater the use of 8:7 aspect ratio 

 

 

Edited November 17 by Nando Diver

[Nando Diver]

15 hours ago, Elvandar said:

Damn, why they had to change the mount to zd, to support the 8:7? 

 

I am interested in the glass version of the 140, but I don't like the idea that to get it, I have to change also the mount, and the 2 adaptor of the lens I already have 

 

Btw, thanks for the update @Nando Diver

 

The UWL-03 from this video, it seems to works in 8:7 aspect ratio, i never test it

 

The INON SD/ AOI QRS mounts are backwards compatible 

 

AOI UWL-03

99mm (D) X40.3mm (H)

 

 

 

 

Edited November 17 by Nando Diver