It's Time to Talk About the Nikonos RS 13mm Again

[ianmarsh]

One thing is close to my heart: Nikon Water contact optics. The two most important of these are:

 

Nikonos 15mm mechanical - can still be used with Sony Mirrorless and a Nauticam port adapter

Nikonos RS 13mm autofocus

 

As many old timers know, the Nikonos RS 13mm lens died a slow death at the end of the film era, but due to work by dedicated individuals (Andrej Belic, Borut Furlan/Seacam), was brought back to life in the 2010's. The lens was state of the art at the time, and in many ways, still is. Conversion was carried out to adapt the lens to work with Nikon DSLRs, as well as (independently) Red Cinema cameras in Gates housings. This required both electronic conversion for the autofocus and mechanical conversion to mate the lens to the camera/housing system. Andrej and Borut came up with different ways of accomplishing this magic, but both systems work very well. The only hitch is with the aperture linkage, which is mechanical. This does not convert 1:1 with Nikon DSLRs and requires a fudge-factor to set and read aperture values.

 

As Nauticam introduced its line of water contact optics, the status of this lens came into question, and went from being the only water contact game in town, to a player in an expanding field. It's key feature remains it's very small footprint, which the Nauticam products do not possess.

 

With the advent of mirrorless cameras, the lens is again threatened with extinction, as the autofocus is based on the Nikon D lenses, which use mechanical autofocus.

 

I currently own a Nikonos RS 13mm which was modified by Seacam in 2015. I used it with a Seacam housing originally, but never really liked the housing ergonomics. I switched back to Nauticam with a D800, and then a D850 housing and Seacam/Nauticam port adapter (no longer available) which has worked brilliantly.

I have been thinking about a switch to mirrorless, but to be honest, the reason I haven’t is this lens.

 

 At this point, I would like to invite discussion on this lens, and specifically the recent development by Isaac Szabo (www.isaacszabo.com) of converting this lens to work with Sony Mirrorless. This was recently highlighted by Alex Mustard and Matt Sullivan on their new Youtube platform, the Underwater Photography Show.

 

I am soooo excited about this development!!!

 

Alex? Matt? Isaac? Care to get this party started?
 

[ianmarsh]

Another thought.

 

Perhaps this would be a good place for original authors to transplant their own threads/content from that "other website" on this topic (Nikonos RS 13mm) to form an archive on WaterPixels. There has certainly been lots of discussion over the years and it would be a shame to lose it.

 

Or... maybe start a new thread for Archive material and keep this one fresh for discussion on adaptation to mirrorless?

 

ian

Edited January 16 by ianmarsh
Typos

[Alex_Mustard]

I think what is doubly exciting is that Isaac has not only got the lens to work, but increased our understanding of how it works and exploited that to make it even better optically, through an additional distance control. 

 

I will have plenty to add when I shoot it in Raja, and will also commit my thoughts to YouTube! 

 

I know that we will also have at least one other 13mm on my trip, on a D850, so it will be interesting to compare results with that as well as other options on my Sony. I don't think I have the baggage allowance to also take the Nauticam mechanical 13mm fisheye, that was never publicly released. But I do have files from that shot last year to compare as well. So should have a pretty clear idea. 

 

Nikonos 13mm and Nauticam 13mm comparison shot from last summer. 

[ianmarsh]

Awesome! Thanks Alex.

 

I have emailed Isaac with the question of whether previously modded lenses can be re-modded to work with the mirrorless set up. Maybe Isaac could comment on this?

 

Alex: are you free to discuss the Nauticam mechanical product, or would they sent Seal Team 6 after you?

 

ian

[Alex_Mustard]

The Nauticam mechanical fisheye is actually very easy to shoot. Optically it is fantastic. But I am much more excited by their FCP. If you go back to DX Nikon SLRs where people had the choice between the best optics (10.5mm fisheye) and a flexible lens (10-17mm fisheye), almost everyone chose the Tokina. And for most it was their only wide angle lens. The FCP delivers a wider zoom range than the Tokina and water corrected optics approaching the 13mm. That is seriously attractive. 

 

I don't see the FCP quite matching the Nikonos or Nauticam 13mm fisheyes optically. And is also larger. What I love about Isaac's conversion is how small it is - beneficial for close focus work, how small a subject we can shoot, and also easy of taking it on trips. 

 

I am very excited to be able to try them both and fully expect to love both. Fingers crossed for a good trip.

 

Alex

[ianmarsh]

Thanks Alex... very interesting!

 

Does the Nauticam lens use a modified Nikonos 13mm or is it a totally new construct?

 

Are there plans to release it into the wild?

 

Ian

[Davide DB]

For our members I post here the new Alex's podcast episode on Nikon RS 13 mm

 

 

[MatthewSullivan]

For those who haven’t seen it yet this may be helpful 🙂 

 

https://www.divephotoguide.com/underwater-photography-special-features/article/review-nikonos-13mm-sony-conversion

And for anyone interested I can send high res files 

[Isaac Szabo]

7 hours ago, ianmarsh said:

I have emailed Isaac with the question of whether previously modded lenses can be re-modded to work with the mirrorless set up. Maybe Isaac could comment on this?

 

Hi Ian. I answered this via email, but since it was raised here I'll answer here too. Since I am only using the glass from the 13mm, any previous modifications shouldn't affect my ability to convert the lens to Sony. 

[Guest]

I think those water contact optics can be interesting especially on a camera that doesn’t have an excessively high megapixel count 

this competes with adapting a canon 8-15mm which is an outstanding lens and is still being sold and supported am not sure when you take it underwater if there is going to be any real benefit. 
someone should do some tests in a pool with a test rig I find open water examples totally unreliable to draw conclusions on sharpness while they are good to understand rendering 

[DocTock]

On 1/16/2024 at 8:49 AM, ianmarsh said:

I have been thinking about a switch to mirrorless, but to be honest, the reason I haven’t is this lens.

 

This is exactly my reasoning for NOT making the switch to mirrorless yet.

I have an Andrej converted RS13 and shoot Nikon D850.
It makes no sense personally for me to go to a system that would have me lose my favorite WA lens.
I was a super late adopter of D850, shooting D800 waiting for the D850 replacement than never came.
The abilities of the camera far exceed my abilities as a photographer so no personal need to chase technology.

 

[Walt Stearns]

I have been using a Seacam modified Nikonos R-UW 13mm with my D850 for about three years running now. So far, I have not found any wide-angle lens behind a dome port underwater to be anywhere close to its equal. Having looked at both Nauticam new FCP as well as their WACP C water contact lenses, they strike me as neither that compact, nor lightweight enough to make them as ideal for travel as my RS 13 setup.

 

That said, one of the primary setbacks with the Nikonos R-UW 13 is that the autofocus is driven by the earlier Nikon F screw drive system used in AF-D Type lenses up to 1987. 

 

Back in November 2023, MonsterAdapter announced that it was developing a new LA-FE2 Nikon F mount to Sony E mount electronic lens adapter with both aperture and autofocus capability built in through a new dual motor that would also drive traditional Nikkor AF-D lenses. The new MonsterAdapter LA-FE2 was expected to be launched with price and more detailed information at the end of 2023, but as yet (Jan 22, 2024) it has yet to be seen. 

 

My question is, if it had come be, would it have worked on my R-UW 13?

 

One the things that I have found with lenses modified by Seacam (perhaps my case only) is that the lens will not properly interface with my D850 with when I attempted to use it with the Kenko TELEPLUS HD Pro 1.4x DGX Teleconverter which is rated for Nikon AF-D types lens. Autofocus works, but nothing else. Just Error for Aperture, metering, and shutter. 

 

Fortunately, I found no need to rush into the mirrorless camp as I see little outside of video capability providing any great advantage for shooting stills.

 

If I were to make the change to mirrorless, the most logical option at the moment for migrating that lens over would be to have the optics retro fitted into a Sony 50mm E mount mirrorless lens. This of course would be contingent on the modification would provide full functionality (correct aperture control and auto focus) with a E to Z adaptor on a Nikon Z8.

 

[ianmarsh]

8 hours ago, DocTock said:

This is exactly my reasoning for NOT making the switch to mirrorless yet.

I have an Andrej converted RS13 and shoot Nikon D850.
It makes no sense personally for me to go to a system that would have me lose my favorite WA lens.
I was a super late adopter of D850, shooting D800 waiting for the D850 replacement than never came.
The abilities of the camera far exceed my abilities as a photographer so no personal need to chase technology.

 

Right on! It's good to know one is not alone.... group hug!

Edited January 22 by ianmarsh

[Architeuthis]

The new Monster adapter LA-FE2 has just been released: https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/new-product-release-monster-adapter-la-fe2/

We will see how good it will work...

[Walt Stearns]

As far as I am concern, the MonsterAdapter LA-FE2 is still vaporware as it is still not listed on their own website nor is listed on any the retail outlets like B&HPhoto or even Amazon. 

[Sarthur1]

So if I want to use the Nikonos RS 13mm on my Nauticam NA6600 (sony a6600), I need to convert the lens into a sony 50mm lens body and buy a port for it? Or is there an option to use it as is with a wet adaptor?

[Isaac Szabo]

1 hour ago, Sarthur1 said:

So if I want to use the Nikonos RS 13mm on my Nauticam NA6600 (sony a6600), I need to convert the lens into a sony 50mm lens body and buy a port for it? Or is there an option to use it as is with a wet adaptor?

 

There is no wet adapter for the 13mm. So yes currently I think the only way to use it with your a6600 would be to get it converted to the Sony 50mm body with separate port. However, so far I've only done that conversion for the N100 mount, so I would have to see if I could also do it for the N85 mount. Also, and this is probably obvious, but you wouldn't get the full 170 degree fisheye on APS-C. It would be more like 100 degrees. 

[Barmaglot]

1 hour ago, Sarthur1 said:

So if I want to use the Nikonos RS 13mm on my Nauticam NA6600 (sony a6600), I need to convert the lens into a sony 50mm lens body and buy a port for it? Or is there an option to use it as is with a wet adaptor?

Per my understanding, you would have to buy a Nikonos RS 13mm and a Sony 50mm f/1.8, send both to Isaac along with a $1000 fee, and he would take apart the 13mm, mount parts of it in the Sony lens, and other parts of it in a custom housing adapter to create, effectively, a small dome port. However, as he has already posted, the current conversion is available for Nauticam N100 and SeaFrogs 90mm mounts, so your N85 would require additional work, and, most crucially, a6600 being a crop sensor camera, you won't get the full angle of view. Seeing as the whole process would cost north of $3500, I don't think it's worthwhile unless you're shooting full frame. If you really really want it, consider swapping to an A7CII or something similar. 

[Isaac Szabo]

@Barmaglot That's basically correct. Though I will note that $3500 USD has been on the high end so far. Obviously, it all depends on how much one spends on the 13mm. Several people have recently been able to purchase them for between $1500-1800, and the one I'm currently starting work on was somehow snagged for $1200. That said, I'm sure if demand increases your figure will soon be more typical. 

[Walt Stearns]

Nauticam now has info and photos of their new FCP on their website -https://www.nauticam.com/collections/water-contact-optics-for-nav/products/n120-n100-fisheye-conversion-port-with-integrated-float-collar-fcp-170-deg-fov-with-compatible-28mm-lenses

 

Looking at the specifications for it:

Size - Outer Diameter x Length (port mount to front) 198 x 136mm / 7.7953 x 5.3543 in.

Weight in air - 3.2kg/ 7.1-lbs.

 

This is a horse of lens compared to my R-UW 13 setup (main lens body and port) weigh a mere .9kg/2-lbs. Fortunately, the FCP does not require an extension ring with the NIKKOR Z 24-50mm f/4-6.3 Lens.

 

While it might be something to consider if / when I should decide to go to a Z8; if you are O.K. with dropping $ 6,941.00 USD on it. For me, the option of having my R-UW F mount converted to a Sony E mount and adding a Sony E-Mount Lens to Nikon Z-Mount Autofocus Adapter is looking better and better.        

Edited January 25 by Walt Stearns

[Isaac Szabo]

The FCP looks like a great option for those wanting the added versatility of a zoom and circular fisheye. But yes the 13mm offers advantages in image quality, size/weight, and price. 

 

A few measurements of my 13mm port (including hood):

Diameter: 108.6mm/4.28in

Length: 108.3mm/4.26in

Weight: 519g/18.3oz

 

Note that the weight might be slightly different since I weighed a prototype and the final version has a few minor changes.

[waterpixel]

It looks like the RS13 hype is living up, its second hand price is heading to the moon, seeing one at 3000GBP on ebay.. it was close to half 2 months ago! 😆

[ChipBPhoto]

25 minutes ago, waterpixel said:

It looks like the RS13 hype is living up, its second hand price is heading to the moon, seeing one at 3000GBP on ebay.. it was close to half 2 months ago! 😆

Yep - seen the same.  A clean one was on eBay for $2K last week.  It sold and the only one I can find now is $3K.  Too bad…

Edited February 5 by ChipBPhoto

[Isaac Szabo]

The $3K one has been lowered to $2.7K, but that's still high in my opinion. Currently it seems like most of the ones available at reasonable prices were bought up over the last couple months and now there's a shortage. Hopefully more show up on the market before too long and the prices don't get outrageous. 

[ianmarsh]

4 hours ago, ChipBPhoto said:

Yep - seen the same.  A clean one was on eBay for $2K last week.  It sold and the only one I can find now is $3K.  Too bad…

I saw that lens... it was in nice shape. I put in an offer on it and within 5 minutes of it being posted with offer pending, it got snapped up on the Buy It Now. I'm sure someone on WaterPixels is the new proud owner.