Fisheye for Sony FF

[JB_Cazajous]

Hello everyone
 

On my Sony A7III with Nauticam housing, my wide angle setup is Sony 28-60 + Nauticam WWL1
 

I was looking forward to the new Nauticam FCP, but unfortunately I just saw the pre-order price, and it's out of my budget
 

I would still like to have a real fisheye lens in addition to my setup
I have narrowed it down to 2 options: the canon 8-15mm fisheye, or the sigma 15mm fisheye
 

My first question is, is there a real quality difference between these two lenses?
What is the added value of opting for the 8-15 canon rather than the sigma 15mm which is cheaper?
 

Finally, how to choose the best dome suitable for each of these lenses
On the Nauticam port chart, they recommend the 140mm fisheye dome for the 2 lenses
For example, could the 100mm or 170mm dome from Zen also be compatible?

What would be the advantages of a 170 dome compared to a 140mm dome, for split levels pictures, CFWA?
 

Thank you for your answers

[Sokrates]

I would look into converted RS 13mm also.

Pricewise it probably comes out cheaper than that Canon+adapter+dome combo.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, JB_Cazajous said:

Hello everyone
 

On my Sony A7III with Nauticam housing, my wide angle setup is Sony 28-60 + Nauticam WWL1
 

I was looking forward to the new Nauticam FCP, but unfortunately I just saw the pre-order price, and it's out of my budget
 

I would still like to have a real fisheye lens in addition to my setup
I have narrowed it down to 2 options: the canon 8-15mm fisheye, or the sigma 15mm fisheye
 

My first question is, is there a real quality difference between these two lenses?
What is the added value of opting for the 8-15 canon rather than the sigma 15mm which is cheaper?
 

Finally, how to choose the best dome suitable for each of these lenses
On the Nauticam port chart, they recommend the 140mm fisheye dome for the 2 lenses
For example, could the 100mm or 170mm dome from Zen also be compatible?

What would be the advantages of a 170 dome compared to a 140mm dome, for split levels pictures, CFWA?
 

Thank you for your answers

Sigma 15mm is a very small lens which will perform a bit worse in a dome and as paradox require a larger one

 

The Sigma 15mm has a fixed hood so does not fit in the Zen DP100

 

The Canon 8-15 also works well in the 4.33 acrylic minidome for CFWA

 

The DP170 is not a fisheye dome so not recommended at all.

 

basically your choices are with the canon 8-15 which is the most versatile

 

4.33 acrylic

140mm glass

8.5 acrylic

 

The glass is my favourite as it has less chance of reflections and give a bit more further away infinity focus

The 4.33 is very good when you need something small to go very close 

The larger acrylic dome is good if you want to have absolutely everything in focus however with that size it floats and gives other types of challenges. This is the best for split shots in case you dont want to buy a custom made one

[ChipBPhoto]

Hi @JB_Cazajous  I use a Sony FF with a WWL and had the same question.  (I was also very excited about the FCP).  As you read below please keep in mind I too needed to stay within a reasonable price for all, but wanted to get the best possible quality for what I could afford as I plan to keep it for quite some time.
 

I have found the Canon 8-15 with the Sigma MC-11 adapter to be an exceptional option.  The Canon “L” glass is a bit pricy, but legendary for its quality and sharpness.  There are plenty of good quality 8-15s available on the used market at an acceptable price.  I also tried the Metabones V adapter, but found the MC-11 was not only cheaper, but easier to use and works very well with a super fast / accurate focus in a slightly smaller package.  This also allows the circular 8mm fisheye image, if you get the zoom gear.  When used sparingly it adds a cool effect to your dive photo options.  You can also add a 1.4x teleconverter to this lens for a little extra reach with the wide view.

 

As far as domes, I chose the Nauticam 140mm.  It is small, easy to maneuver uw, and sharp.  Be sure to get the model with the removable shade if you want to be able to do the circular images.  With this lens/port solution I can basically focus right on a starfish arm and have an amazing CFWA image.

 

Zen also makes a 100mm dome designed for the Canon 8-15.  I used a similar one with my APS-C system, but per Alex Mustard he found the 140 dome was the smallest size with acceptable corners for a FF system.  
 

A larger dome such as 170, 180, or 230 will allow the option of split images, but there is the size and cost to consider.  I personally was more interested in smaller dive and transport size than doing the occasional split, but others have different priorities.  With that said, technically you can do a split with the 140 dome, but it will be challenging.  You will need to be in still water for the best chance.

 

Remember any dome option will begin with the N100-N120 port adapter.  From there you can use any N120 dome or port on your Sony system once you have the appropriate extension.  For the Canon solution I outlined above you will need:

 - Nauticam N100-N120 adapter 

 - 30mm extension (120)

 - 140 Dome (N120)

 - If you add a 1.4x teleconverter, add a 20mm extension

I also agree the Nikon 13mm conversion is now a very solid option, and is even smaller.  This was not openly available when I bought my setup.

 

You will find many options by those claiming to have the “best solution.”  The best solution for you is what fits your personal needs.  Enjoy!

 

Edited January 21 by ChipBPhoto

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, ChipBPhoto said:

Hi @JB_Cazajous  I use a Sony FF with a WWL and had the same question.  (I was also very excited about the FCP).  As you read below please keep in mind I too needed to stay within a reasonable price for all, but wanted to get the best possible quality for what I could afford as I plan to keep it for quite some time.
 

I have found the Canon 8-15 with the Sigma MC-11 adapter to be an exceptional option.  The Canon “L” glass is a bit pricy, but legendary for its quality and sharpness.  There are plenty of good quality 8-15s available on the used market at an acceptable price.  I also tried the Metabones V adapter, but found the MC-11 was not only cheaper, but easier to use and works very well with a super fast / accurate focus in a slightly smaller package.  This also allows the circular 8mm fisheye image, if you get the zoom gear.  When used sparingly it adds a cool effect to your dive photo options.  You can also add a 1.4x teleconverter to this lens for a little extra reach with the wide view.

 

As far as domes, I chose the Nauticam 140mm.  It is small, easy to maneuver uw, and sharp.  Be sure to get the model with the removable shade if you want to be able to do the circular images.

 

Zen also makes a 100mm dome designed for the Canon 8-15.  I used a similar one with my APS-C system, but per Alex Mustard he found the 140 dome was the smallest size with acceptable corners for a FF system.  
 

A larger dome such as 170, 180, or 230 will allow the option of split images, but there is the size and cost to consider.  I personally was more interested in smaller dive and transport size than doing the occasional split, but others have different priorities.  With that said, technically you can do a split with the 140 dome, but it will be challenging.  You will need to be in still water for the best chance.

 

Remember any dome option will begin with the N100-N120 port adapter.  From there you can use any N120 dome or port on your Sony system once you have the appropriate extension.  For the Canon solution I outlined above you will need:

 - Nauticam N100-N120 adapter 

 - 30mm extension (120)

 - 140 Dome (N120)

 - If you add a 1.4x teleconverter, add a 20mm extension

I also agree the Nikon 13mm conversion is now a very solid option, and is even smaller.  This was not openly available when I bought my setup.

 

You will find lots and lots of options by those claiming to have the “best solution.”  The best solution for you is what fits your personal needs.  Enjoy!

 

The sigma adapter in single shot works equally well than the metabones

HOWEVER if you shoot in burst the adapter locks up with almost all Canon EF lenses after the first shot. As the MC-11 is only designed to work with sigma this has never been fixed

for this reason I did not consider it. 

After locking it reboots the camera it takes 30 seconds to unlock

Burst shooting with a fisheye can happen if you shoot for example sharks 

 

Sigma MC-11 is new here £199 but metabones second hand I paid £239 and I have had zero issues with it

In addition I do not know a single person that has tried the TC route with the sigma. So that would need to be checked

I use the Kenko regularly with my metabones and canon with zero issues

Edited January 21 by Interceptor121

[ChipBPhoto]

In my personal experience and usage, my Sigma MC-11 does not lock up with my Canon 8-15, even in burst mode or quick repetitive shutter action.  It similarly works with the TC and has been widely used by people I know.  Others choose the Metabones option, which is also fine.  Enjoy!  

Edited January 21 by ChipBPhoto

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, ChipBPhoto said:

In my personal experience and usage, my Sigma MC-11 does not lock up with my Canon 8-15, even in burst mode or quick repetitive shutter action.  It similarly works with the TC and has been widely used by people I know.  Others choose the Metabones option, which is also fine.  Enjoy!  

Have you used the teleconverter in water? I have not found one example other than myself using the kenko on the Canon 8-15mm it has some bad press that I do not agree with 

Yet I have not seen heard a single person using sigma MC-11 and teleconverter which obviously is formally unsupported so i would be curious to see

 

Edited January 21 by Interceptor121

[Architeuthis]

First, I cannot tell whether there is a difference at 15mm between Sigma and Canon 8-15mm, as I only have the Canon, which is excellent...

 

Second, the advantage of Canon 8-15mm is that you can make circular fisheye photos. In addition, you can use the 1.4x TC and zoom in more narrow than the 180° diagonal fisheye, approximately to 124° diagonal, more or less the wide end of WACP (the usable zoomrange is, however, quite narrow (15-21mm) and you loose the option for circular fisheye, when using the 1.4x TC)...

 

Regarding the domes, I use the 140mm domeport, as it already provides very good IQ and it is still small (100mm is regarded too small for high IQ on FF by many, but not all). From my personal experience, I know that IQ with the 170 domeport is at least as good as with the 140, but it is significantly more bulky (not so good for CFWA). On the other hand the 170 domeport works better for split photos (but also 140 works o.k.). Quite many use the 230 domeport for the Canon (and Nikon) 8-15mm - excellent IQ, very bulky, but even better for split photos (and also very well working with rectilinear WA lenses)...

 

 

Wolfgang

 

 

[JB_Cazajous]

Thank you everybody for your answers
 

Considering your advice, I should choose the canon 8-15 without hesitation for his image quality
 

Regarding the dome, the 140mm seems to be the one that would suit me best
It has better image quality, and split level photos are possible, but more difficult
This is not an issue given that it will not be more than 10% of my pictures. So, not necessary to invest twice the money in the 230mm dome
 

I was already able to buy a second hand Metabones Mark V for only 150€! 😁
 

It remains to be seen whether the 1.4 teleconverter is really usable or not? This would still be an interesting option, not too expensive, and which would allow more versatility with this lens.

[ChipBPhoto]

57 minutes ago, JB_Cazajous said:

Thank you everybody for your answers
 

Considering your advice, I should choose the canon 8-15 without hesitation for his image quality
 

Regarding the dome, the 140mm seems to be the one that would suit me best
It has better image quality, and split level photos are possible, but more difficult
This is not an issue given that it will not be more than 10% of my pictures. So, not necessary to invest twice the money in the 230mm dome
 

I was already able to buy a second hand Metabones Mark V for only 150€! 😁
 

It remains to be seen whether the 1.4 teleconverter is really usable or not? This would still be an interesting option, not too expensive, and which would allow more versatility with this lens.

Sounds great - best of luck with your new setup!  You will be able to use it for many years, even if you upgrade your Sony body in the future. 
 

As a thought, since you already have the WWL, you may not really have a need for the TC on the 8-15.  I’ve seen good success using the WWL (or WAPC-C, basically the same thing) for photos such as dolphins, sharks, etc.  The WWL will most likely give you sharper images at wider apertures if you do not need the full 180 degrees of the Canon.  Big animals like whales could benefit from the fisheye, but would most likely not need the TC.

 

The water contact lenses such as the WWL have been a real game changer!  Since I started using it, it’s on my rig over 90% of the time unless I’m doing something really big like close range on a wreck.  Again, it all depends on your personal needs and taste.  Enjoy! 

 

[John E]

I'm an Isotta user rather than Nauticam.

 

I changed to Sony from an Olympus with an 8mm fisheye (4.5 inch dome) and a 7-14mm lens (8 inch dome +60mm extension).

 

I opted for the Canon 8-15 plus Sigma MC11 + Kenko which also uses the 60mm extension and 8 inch dome. II have so far just been using the 8 inch dome port . would need to get a 50mm extension to use the 4.5 inch.

 

As I have a 102mm diameter port on the Olympus Isotta housing and 120mm on the Sony I just needed to buy the B120 to B102 converter.

 

The zoom range is not very large but I am very happy - including not having to buy a new port or extension with the 8 inch. I am also getting a WWL-1. 

 

The focus for stills with the Sigma is fine but not for video.

 

[waterpixel]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:16 PM, JB_Cazajous said:

Regarding the dome, the 140mm seems to be the one that would suit me best

It has better image quality, and split level photos are possible, but more difficult
This is not an issue given that it will not be more than 10% of my pictures. So, not necessary to invest twice the money in the 230mm dome

 

Frankly, it will be very challenging to take splits with such a dome port unless the water is very still! A good dome nonetheless for all the other uses.

[Buddha]

I use the Canon 8-15mm fisheye on my Sony with a Nauticam 230 dome and a Metabones adapter. I have both the version IV and V. Can't say I see much of a difference in speed but maybe a little faster with the V.

[Andrey Narchuk]

I used the Sigma MС-11 with two Canon fisheye lenses 15mm and 8-15. Sony worked without problems in single photo mode. During continuous shooting, the focus was on the first frame in the series, but for fisheye this is usually not a problem.
But there were indeed problems with the video. In fact, you first had to choose what to focus on, and then shoot the entire sequence with that focus.
I used a 230mm sphere as a port. But I was lucky to buy it secondhand less then $800...
p/s And I used an old 1.4 teleconverter (not Canon) with fisheye and everything worked fine. But I didn't really like the final picture. Perhaps I didn't select the extension ring correctly.

[WaterApe]

I use the Metabones V5 + Kenko 1.4 + Canon 8-15 + 140 mm dome on an A7III and i'm very happy with the focusing speed & results. I find the the ability to zoom invaluable - classic fisheye up to mild ultra wide angle is perfect for a lot of use cases, especially reacting to spontaneous closer encounters is way more doable than with a prime.

The comparatively smaller footprint vs. a bigger dome really helps with manoeuvrability, too. At the widest settings there will be some minor vignetting from the 140mm dome shades, but zooming in 1mm removes that. Sharpness (apart from the outer edges even at f16) and flare resistance are notably better than the WWL-1b.

null

[JB_Cazajous]

I'm restarting this discussion

 

I bought a 2nd hand canon 8-15 and a Metabones v5 for Sony A7r3 and Nauticam housing

When I want to put the camera in the housing, it blocks on the system to remove the lenses
So I tried to put my A7RIII in the housing first and then put the lens in from the front.
It is then impossible for me to completely rotate the lens until I reach the notch
You can see my problem in the photos below

 

Should I file the corner of the blue part a little bit to be able to insert my lens correctly?

Edited April 8 by JB_Cazajous

[Lewis88]

I'd just remove the tripod foot on the metabones adapter before I start filing down anything in my housing. 

 

Loosen the two bolts and it pops right off. Depending on if you got a full box used version, it should come with the allen wrench and some little plugs for the open holes.

Edited April 8 by Lewis88

[Phil Rudin]

Just remove the plate from the base of the Metabones adapter and it will work fine. 

 

 

null

[JB_Cazajous]

Thanks!

I didn't see that it was possible to remove this support! 😅 #blind 

[John E]

This is an example of using the Canon 8-15mm fisheye plus 1.4 Kenko with a Sony A7Rv but doing some partial de-fishing in Lightroom just because of the straight lines on the coral nursery. This happens to be with an 8 inch dome as that is what I had. 

 

[Scubakron]

On 1/21/2024 at 2:57 PM, Interceptor121 said:

Have you used the teleconverter in water? I have not found one example other than myself using the kenko on the Canon 8-15mm it has some bad press that I do not agree with 

Yet I have not seen heard a single person using sigma MC-11 and teleconverter which obviously is formally unsupported so i would be curious to see

 

Any opinion regarding different Kenkos?
I might get a Kenko 1.4X Teleplus Pro 300 DG for a good price.

[TimG]

34 minutes ago, Scubakron said:

Any opinion regarding different Kenkos?
I might get a Kenko 1.4X Teleplus Pro 300 DG for a good price.

 

If at all possible, just check it out with whatever lens(es) and camera body you plan to use.

 

I found with Nikon cameras/lenses and the Kenkos, that with some combinations there is no autofocus or aperture control.

 

What would work, for example on a D500 would not work on a Z6/Z9; similarly what might work with a Tokina lens would not work with a Nikkor. I ended up needing two slightly different model 1.4TC Kenkos to use with a D500, Z6/Z9, the Tokina 10-17 and the Nikkor 8-15.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Scubakron said:

Any opinion regarding different Kenkos?
I might get a Kenko 1.4X Teleplus Pro 300 DG for a good price.

Buy the new one not the old 300

[TimG]

24 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

Buy the new one not the old 300

 

Yeah, sounds wise, Massimo. Even then I'd check!

[Scubakron]

2 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

Buy the new one not the old 300

Thanks! Another question, what is the total length for the Metabones+tc+canon 8-15-combo? Can't find specs online for Metabones.
Trying to find out if Seafrogs have any compatible dome or accurate extension ring.