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Has anyone noticed Instagram's HDR revolution?


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As of the end of March Instagram supports serving HDR images. You must be on an HDR screen equipped phone (such as iPhone X and later) or on desktop with HDR monitor (such as OLED TV) and Google Chrome browser (Safari as of today don't support this).

 

This image is SDR jpeg. For HDR version you either have to head over to my Instagram https://www.instagram.com/p/C5nr1kMNu8u/ or download attached file on your HDR phone (iOS Photos app will display fine) or desktop and view it with Chrome browser.

 

Some images will benefit from HDR immensely (such as this type of cenote image) others not so much or a bit (especially those shot with full strobe power without water surface background). Either way the HDR revolution is here (power of social media 🙂 ) and all of us shooting RAW on big sensors will benefit from it (phone and gopro shooters not so much). As well as consumers of our images 🙂 . Cheers 🤙

 

20221212-141719-TajMaha.jpg

20221212-141719-TajMaha.avif

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It is good that some service starts supporting it. Mainly driven by mobile phones and therefore tiny resolution

Adobe has been supporting HDR for photos since some time now however underwater photos are generally a very weak use case 

Even very strongly backlit images if properly managed have just the sunball in HDR region 

The images that do benefit from it are HDR merge type that with tone mapping look worse

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20 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

It is good that some service starts supporting it. Mainly driven by mobile phones and therefore tiny resolution

Adobe has been supporting HDR for photos since some time now however underwater photos are generally a very weak use case 

Even very strongly backlit images if properly managed have just the sunball in HDR region 

The images that do benefit from it are HDR merge type that with tone mapping look worse

🤣 you haven't even try have you? 🤣 yet you already form opinion 🤣. Listen, you need real HDR screen to edit and view. It means Apple XDR on MacBook Pro, iPad Pro or XDR display (studio display won't cut it really), not many good HDR LCD monitors with brightness in range of 1600nits out there and you need that because black on LCD isn't really black,  OLED TV will do fine or just get a phone with bright HDR display and Lightroom on it. Any reference desktop monitor you have from the past won't really cut it. You need that brightness to enjoy and see what other viewers on their iPhones and Samsungs will see.

 

Then take any of your raw files from the past and play. The best if they include water surface. And you will see how strong of a use case underwater photography is for HDR. Images will brighten up like you'd be there again. Good luck 🤙

 

Btw if you ask Siri what 'adobe' is she will answer with some clay kind of material... That's how significant is Adobe as a company for the world. Yet Instagram is used by billions so to say that 'Adobe has been supporting HDR for photos since some time now' is like an empty argument really... so many great technologies has been introduced in the past but unless you get people using them they are just that - technologies. And the truth is that Instagram brought HDR photos to the masses.  

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2 hours ago, RomiK said:

🤣 you haven't even try have you? 🤣 yet you already form opinion 🤣. Listen, you need real HDR screen to edit and view. It means Apple XDR on MacBook Pro, iPad Pro or XDR display (studio display won't cut it really), not many good HDR LCD monitors with brightness in range of 1600nits out there and you need that because black on LCD isn't really black,  OLED TV will do fine or just get a phone with bright HDR display and Lightroom on it. Any reference desktop monitor you have from the past won't really cut it. You need that brightness to enjoy and see what other viewers on their iPhones and Samsungs will see.

 

Then take any of your raw files from the past and play. The best if they include water surface. And you will see how strong of a use case underwater photography is for HDR. Images will brighten up like you'd be there again. Good luck 🤙

 

Btw if you ask Siri what 'adobe' is she will answer with some clay kind of material... That's how significant is Adobe as a company for the world. Yet Instagram is used by billions so to say that 'Adobe has been supporting HDR for photos since some time now' is like an empty argument really... so many great technologies has been introduced in the past but unless you get people using them they are just that - technologies. And the truth is that Instagram brought HDR photos to the masses.  

I have been working on HDR since the start in video 

when the new feature arrived last year I went through my entire underwater photography set of raw images 

conclusion other than the sunball in sunburst no use of the feature

under shots tend to have low contrast therefore are at the opposite of a HDR use case needing in most cases increase of contrast in post processing 

obviously my shots are pretty much never clipped if you expose badly you may see an apparent benefit however clipping remains clipped as acr works in prophotorgb and looks at clipping at bit level. You do not actually need an HDR screen to see if the image would benefit from HDR they are two different things. The histogram shows if the image would benefit from HDR than the display of the image depends on your display.

you make a lot of random assertions that make me conclude you really don’t understand the topic at all especially how it is implemented as your statement show a lot of confusion  

Edited by Interceptor121
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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

I have been working on HDR since the start in video 

when the new feature arrived last year I went through my entire underwater photography set of raw images 

conclusion other than the sunball in sunburst no use of the feature

under shots tend to have low contrast therefore are at the opposite of a HDR use case needing in most cases increase of contrast in post processing 

obviously my shots are pretty much never clipped if you expose badly you may see an apparent benefit however clipping remains clipped as acr works in prophotorgb and looks at clipping at bit level

you make a lot of random assertions that make me conclude you really don’t understand the topic at all

 

OK! Challenge accepted 🤣. Why don't you post here some of your raw file where you really don't see an HDR sense for me to take a crack on it. In the meantime why don't you indulge yourself in attached raw file and try to make a jpeg out of it which would at least try to be close to an HDR version attached here as well. Here is SDR jpeg for others to see: 

 

20240319-112116.jpg

 

And here is an instagram link to an HDR version https://www.instagram.com/p/C5vKWesNI0n/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== (must view it on Chrome browser and HDR monitor or instagram app and HDR phone)

 

Just to be fair tell me what tech are you using so we don't have false expectations. We have same cameras - A1, I use Apple Pro Display XDR for image adjustment and iPhone13Pro for mobile platforms.

 

And so we could make proper assertion as to who does or does not understand the topic 🤣

20240319-112116.ARW 20240319-112116.avif

Edited by RomiK
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As I said you don't need a display to understand what the image has.

This is a sunburst on ACR. The sunball is in the image and therefore clips

The HDR feature tells you which parts are out of gamutimage.png

 

however once you edit the image in standard dynamic range this is the result you get

 

Another situation that looks even worse than the first surface completely washed out however the real clipping is minimum

HDR shows some areas that could benefit only at the very top

However the corresponding SDR image is totally fine and in reality lacks contrast where it matters. This is addressed with masks not with HDR processing.

Those are shots with the surface in the frame even clipped to an extent and show that

When you export to AVIF such shots and then open them with chrome you realise this was not worth it.

Normal shots with the surface not in the frame do not even hit the HDR part of the histogram if properly exposed

 

There was some comparison time ago on landscape shots topside and even in that case the benefit were really in extreme situations

Most time you addess those with masks so the issue you have is to have contrast where you need it not to manage the shots. Once you manage not to clip you can address the situation later in a variety of ways

 

Images taken with a phone in HDR instead cannot be really altered this is why instagram is making a step forward and phones operate HDR on sensor because the dynamic range of the sensor is small that does not mean the image was HDR to start with
 

something that may help understanding why is that in reality even a full frame sensor has a hard stop of 14 stops 
Most cameras reach around 13 stops however this is with an SNR=1 and not really useable.

adobe sets a limit of +4 because this is 10 of SDR plus 4

to the max.

most underwater images that do not contain a sunball and are lit by strobes dont reach 10

stops

hence the use case is just not there

it is useful to use the acr

tools to make an assessment which confirms that underwater photography is

an SDR business 

am still trying to find out which shots topside may benefit from HDR processing and screens mostly those would be sunrise sunset backlit shots 

my computer screen has 12 stops and my TV is tru black so has 20

stops yet have to find something creating the wow effect

 

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Edited by Interceptor121
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OK I think I know now where you have problem - you seem not to have the right tools to develop in HDR yet you have a good read of theory and so you think it's where you want to give advice.

 

The problem is though that without HDR display - you still did not say what brand and type you have available - all these reads about HDR are just reads. As you mentioned that you didn't like resulting .avif from your grades - it is because you grade your raw files blind. You can't go by the visualizations tools in Lightroom as their intended purpose is from other direction - to show where your HDR image may have problems on SDR screen (or in JPEG).

 

We both will probably agree on that the photography is not about the mathematical formulas, stops and corners but it is an art of light and double that for underwater images. So when grading image for HDR you just need to see what you are doing. 

 

See these images 

 

image.png

 

image.png 

will spring to life if processed for HDR (you could have attach its raw files btw)  and the water surface will look quite different from what you think it might.

 

Once you will have the right tools available you will see that the world of HDR is a bit different from what you thought you knew. And then with the level of your expressionism you will be able to offer excellent analysis I am sure. Good luck.

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Posted (edited)

btw I've had a feeling that you will try to respond with lots of your - ehm - arguments (🤣) so before you do here is a demonstration of those Lightroom visual tools in practice. Here is Tiger ZOO in SDR, how the Lightroom displays SDR and visualize HDR and off course HDR image in attachment 🙂 null

Screenshot 2024-04-14 at 5.32.48 PM.jpg

20240319-113107.jpg

20240319-113107.avif

Edited by RomiK
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39 minutes ago, RomiK said:

btw I've had a feeling that you will try to respond with lots of your - ehm - arguments (🤣) so before you do here is a demonstration of those Lightroom visual tools in practice. Here is Tiger ZOO in SDR, how the Lightroom displays SDR and visualize HDR and off course HDR image in attachment 🙂 null

Screenshot 2024-04-14 at 5.32.48 PM.jpg

20240319-113107.jpg

20240319-113107.avif 3.03 MB · 1 download

Your images are clipped and the color totally off. Something to do with white balance 50,000K 

 

White balance is a multiplication operation so it will get color off any gamut of your choice

 

The AVIF file you linked looks horrible too and nothing to call your mama about

 

Not sure how you shot that image but the correction -1.15 also looks terrible probably it is clipped all over before and after the white balance correction it gets to total loss

 

It is my example of badly exposed images, nothing will save them, they may look a bit better but still pretty ugly

 

Mine are instead properly exposed

 

Pretty much what I said if you know how to expose the whole HDR thing does not bring any benefits however if you clip all over it gives the illusion of an improvement for as much as it can go in the space (but it is still terrlibly clipped and ugly)

 

I think I have nothing more to add try to improve your technique instead of invoking magic tools

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32 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

Your images are clipped and the color totally off. Something to do with white balance 50,000K 

 

White balance is a multiplication operation so it will get color off any gamut of your choice

 

The AVIF file you linked looks horrible too and nothing to call your mama about

 

Not sure how you shot that image but the correction -1.15 also looks terrible probably it is clipped all over before and after the white balance correction it gets to total loss

 

It is my example of badly exposed images, nothing will save them, they may look a bit better but still pretty ugly

 

Mine are instead properly exposed

 

Pretty much what I said if you know how to expose the whole HDR thing does not bring any benefits however if you clip all over it gives the illusion of an improvement for as much as it can go in the space (but it is still terrlibly clipped and ugly)

 

I think I have nothing more to add try to improve your technique instead of invoking magic tools

Uh oh it’s worse than I thought 😂😂😂 I’ve tried to help but no more 🤦‍♀️ you really are full of …. Listen it’s ok to say you can’t afford to buy stuff but do not hide your own inability behind a million reasons why this or that could or could not work 🤦‍♀️. Off course you can’t see damned sh.. as you don’t have the monitor to see so you you conclude in your own little brain that the things just can’t be 😂😂😂 but that’s ok we all need to live in the world of trolls … 🤦‍♀️

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31 minutes ago, RomiK said:

Uh oh it’s worse than I thought 😂😂😂 I’ve tried to help but no more 🤦‍♀️ you really are full of …. Listen it’s ok to say you can’t afford to buy stuff but do not hide your own inability behind a million reasons why this or that could or could not work 🤦‍♀️. Off course you can’t see damned sh.. as you don’t have the monitor to see so you you conclude in your own little brain that the things just can’t be 😂😂😂 but that’s ok we all need to live in the world of trolls … 🤦‍♀️

I don't have a problem with money to buy stuff and I have all the equipment I need

HDR range is for super white. Your histogram at -1.5 shows half in the HDR region means your image is clipped brutally top to bottom

Regardsless of HDR when you look at the histogram in lightroom if the right side is clipped it remains clipped regardless of HDR or SDR because the program is looking at RAW data

Take this example the show clipping does not show red areas but the blue channel is clipped. the program recovers highlights using the red and green channel.

nullIf you press show proof at that point the program limits to the gamut and gamma of the display you can see lots more will clip

nullWhen you visualise in HDR the program is allowing for 4 extra stops of DR on top of the 10 so you get a different situation. 

nullEventually you correct the image in the sRGB space the image is still out of gamut however it displays just fine

nullNote how the custom white balance is 6450 with tint +64 that means the correction is mild and is not going to destroy the water color as it happens in your example

Your image is compromise this has nothing to do with HDR to see if just reset to default values if the histogram is clipped beyond repair nothing is going to help you because the sensor clipped. Sensor clipped has nothing to do with color space or gamma of the display, it just means the pixel went in overflow.

I am trying to give you some information so that you start learning a bit more how things work however it seems like this is not only having an effect but also getting you on the defensive.

One thing is clear though the image you posted sucks literally in any gamut or gamma of your choice it is just a terrible photo!

image.png

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Guys, can we tone it down a little please, please attack the subject rather than than each other.  Robust discussion is quite welcome on the forum, however name calling and other types of personal attack are not.  This is not about who is right or wrong and whether HDR is indeed useful UW, rather it's about showing each other a measure of respect.  Please try to state your arguments clearly to defend your position with facts data and examples, calling the other person an idiot doesn't prove you are right. 

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4 hours ago, Chris Ross said:

Guys, can we tone it down a little please, please attack the subject rather than than each other.  Robust discussion is quite welcome on the forum, however name calling and other types of personal attack are not.  This is not about who is right or wrong and whether HDR is indeed useful UW, rather it's about showing each other a measure of respect.  Please try to state your arguments clearly to defend your position with facts data and examples, calling the other person an idiot doesn't prove you are right. 

Opposite to the op I didn’t call him an idiot and provided specific examples to illustrate how things work

you can spend thousands on equipment but if you don’t know how things work there is no magic 

and then when someone else point the flaws get irritated because you spent that money is even more childish 

there is an histogram there with people in black wetsuit yet the histogram with a correction of -1 ev still doesn’t show anything hitting the left is a bit pointless to talk about dynamic range if your shot is clipped all over 

cameras sensors dont work in any colour or gamma if the sensor clips it just does and no dynamic range display will come to the rescue 

Edited by Interceptor121
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7 hours ago, Chris Ross said:

Guys, can we tone it down a little please, please attack the subject rather than than each other.  Robust discussion is quite welcome on the forum, however name calling and other types of personal attack are not.  This is not about who is right or wrong and whether HDR is indeed useful UW, rather it's about showing each other a measure of respect.  Please try to state your arguments clearly to defend your position with facts data and examples, calling the other person an idiot doesn't prove you are right. 

 

I would love nothing more than to stay on the subject, which was HDR underwater photography, but this @Interceptor121 character is acting like a real internet troll. He clearly does not have a display - even if it was a mobile phone - to view HDR images on yet he concludes that the images are overexposed and bad here and there just based on visual tools of software he is using wrong anyway and completely messes up the thread subject. PLEASE someone with iPhone Pro or MacBook Pro 14/16 tell him that the .avif posted here are not overexposed so he could give it a rest and stop annoying argumenting why it can't be... 

 

And you @Interceptor121 why don't you finally post exact make and model of the displays you use to judge HDR content. Nothing to be ashamed of if you have the right tools. And if not why don't you just shut up? It is simple as that. And in all your greatness 🙈 you failed to discover a little dirty secret of the test image above and that is that it was shot in (by you for stills despised) SLog3 profile and processed using custom Slog3 to P3 LUT.... You just can't understand and process in your head that the things can be done a bit different in this world 🙈

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1 minute ago, RomiK said:

 

I would love nothing more than to stay on the subject, which was HDR underwater photography, but this @Interceptor121 character is acting like a real internet troll. He clearly does not have a display - even if it was a mobile phone - to view HDR images on yet he concludes that the images are overexposed and bad here and there just based on visual tools of software he is using wrong anyway and completely messes up the thread subject. PLEASE someone with iPhone Pro or MacBook Pro 14/16 tell him that the .avif posted here are not overexposed so he could give it a rest and stop annoying argumenting why it can't be... 

 

Please do.  And to both of you just to be totally clear phrases like :

 

"I’ve tried to help but no more 🤦‍♀️ you really are full of …."

" so you you conclude in your own little brain that the things just can’t be"

" but that’s ok we all need to live in the world of trolls … 🤦‍♀️"

"And if not why don't you just shut up? It is simple as that"

"The AVIF file you linked looks horrible too and nothing to call your mama about"

 

Are not staying on subject, they are attacks on the messenger and don't help you argue your case.  Please refrain from such attacks. 

 

 

 

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Messages like why dont you post the make and model of the monitor highlight total ignorance of the subject 

read the adobe documentation to understand why 

https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/camera-raw/using/hdr-output.html

you only need a macbook pro with xdr display to show the hdr image (which I have together with a benq hdr display for my studio)

however you dont need that to process or save an hdr image 

and not understanding what is a sensor clipping point is a real issue hdr or not

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

Messages like why dont you post the make and model of the monitor highlight total ignorance of the subject 

read the adobe documentation to understand why 

https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/camera-raw/using/hdr-output.html

you only need a macbook pro with xdr display to show the hdr image (which I have together with a benq hdr display for my studio)

however you dont need that to process or save an hdr image 

and not understanding what is a sensor clipping point is a real issue hdr or not

 

🤣🤣 you are nonstop! 🤣🤣 and you don't even have HDR monitor 🤣 - your screenshots gave you up - just look below 🤣 maybe also time to learn Lightroom interface a bit -  or you do have one and run it in an SDR mode without even knowing about it 🤣 dunno which is worse 🤣 

 

You should really refrain from commenting on things you don't understand... and there is a lot of it... that .avif image which you called overexposed garbage, you know the second one with sharks, it is not an art but it is a good demo of the HDR aspect of things. But of course - without viewing it on HDR monitor you will see just an SDR version of it (little lesson for you  - .avif includes meta for different displays) and without viewing it on Chrome browser you will see total garbage which is what you probably did.

 

So not understanding what you talk about and kinda lying about the tools seems like a real issue to me...

 

MacBook Pro 14 XDR display

Screenshot 2024-04-15 at 3.09.57 PM.jpg

 

 

Apple XDR Pro Display

Screenshot 2024-04-15 at 3.09.12 PM.jpg

 

SDR display

Screenshot 2024-04-15 at 3.07.20 PM.jpg

 

... and a screenshot from you 🤣 ... see, Lightroom when running on SDR monitor will display that HDR range red... 🤣 when you press that HDR button it does not mean that miracles happen and your monitor will jump into HDR mode 🤣 if you use MacBook XDR monitor and using say photography profile P3D65 it is SDR... and then you try to comment on HDR images? What a mess 🤣

 

image.png.0eeb83912d25d3f11600fd9e5a4782ff.png

 

Edited by RomiK
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24 minutes ago, RomiK said:

 

🤣🤣 you are nonstop! 🤣🤣 and you don't even have HDR monitor 🤣 - your screenshots gave you up - just look below 🤣 maybe also time to learn Lightroom interface a bit -  or you do have one and run it in an SDR mode without even knowing about it 🤣 dunno which is worse 🤣 

 

You should really refrain from commenting on things you don't understand... and there is a lot of it... that .avif image which you called overexposed garbage, you know the second one with sharks, it is not an art but it is a good demo of the HDR aspect of things. But of course - without viewing it on HDR monitor you will see just an SDR version of it (little lesson for you  - .avif includes meta for different displays) and without viewing it on Chrome browser you will see total garbage which is what you probably did.

 

So not understanding what you talk about and kinda lying about the tools seems like a real issue to me...

 

MacBook Pro 14 XDR display

Screenshot 2024-04-15 at 3.09.57 PM.jpg

 

 

Apple XDR Pro Display

Screenshot 2024-04-15 at 3.09.12 PM.jpg

 

SDR display

Screenshot 2024-04-15 at 3.07.20 PM.jpg

 

... and a screenshot from you 🤣 ... see, Lightroom when running on SDR monitor will display that HDR range red... 🤣 when you press that HDR button it does not mean that miracles happen and your monitor will jump into HDR mode 🤣 if you use MacBook XDR monitor and using say photography profile P3D65 it is SDR... and then you try to comment on HDR images? What a mess 🤣

 

image.png.0eeb83912d25d3f11600fd9e5a4782ff.png

 

You are totally off track and don't understand the wood from the trees unfortunately this is a case of utter Ignorance and also lack of trust

What would be the reason I tell you something different to what I have exacty?

Second why would I use my screen in HDR mode if most of what I use requires P3 SDR best case?

The histogram obviosly (not for you though) does not depend on the output media.

Even on my Macbook Pro I select use for photography P3 and not the standard Apple

Why? Because it is impossible to calibrate a display in HDR mode across devices which is what you need when you move items between workstations.

So my workflow for photos and videos is to work in SDR P3 across the field and use tone mapping. Why because the predominant use case does not need HDR hence I do not use it

If someone had explained that to you probably you could have avoided spending money in equipment while you clearly do not know how it operates

Now take your rubbish image reset lightroom value and then look at the histogram it does not matter HDR or SDR and check what do you see (dont reduce the highlights to -100 to hide the clipping you had). Then we can start having a conversation until then enrol photography ABC (and video for that matter) so that you have a baseline and do not remain an obtuse ignorant with zero practical and theorical knowledge with on top some trust issues that cannot be cured#

 

Edited by Interceptor121
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20 minutes ago, TimG said:

Guys, enough already. Can we move on please?

 

Chris has already asked you nicely to desist.

 

he (Massimo) is getting red for sure... but what do you do with a pedantic man who is spoiling the subject? He's unstoppable!🙈 

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I a

36 minutes ago, RomiK said:

 

he (Massimo) is getting red for sure... but what do you do with a pedantic man who is spoiling the subject? He's unstoppable!🙈 

 I am totally cool and you are just ignorant in the sense that you lack the knowledge and the understanding of how a program like adobe lightroom or ACR works

First the program operates in its own working space that does not need any specific type of display to function.

When you see an histogram on the screen it stays the same does not matter SDR or HDR display. 

If you show your image reset without taking the highlights and whites to -100 you would see that your image is clipped and that would stay like that regardless of the output medium

An HDR display like a paper sheet is just an output for the data contained in the file it does not create any capability you did not already have

Now the fact that you assert that I do not have a macbook pro or an HDR screen and am maiking this up just shows the sad reality of the kind of things you would do but that does not mean this is true does it?

What would happen if I had taken that image from my macbook pro? nothing as I set it to photography P3 not to HDR or XDR why it is not your concern

Now where it gets really sad is that you believe that having a display is a requirement to understand how to process the output while it isn't

It has not been like that forever we have been dealing with devices that did not reflect the input forever and it will continue to be like that

However your image that is clipped will stay clipped no matter how you look at it

The problem with your logic is I have an image that is badly exposed and now it will come to life because of the display

The reality is underwater photos are taken for most with artificial light and therefore are not HDR those few that have some dynamic range needs like sunburst can comfortably be managed as they have been for years with few adjustment so that if the image did not clip you can bring it back in the 10 stops of an SDR display

If topside the case for HDR is small, underwater is tiny and there is no rescue for your clipped horrid images with colors that shifted no matter how much money you spend on devices (that you don't even understand how they work)

Now when I get back home and I post the same histogram with the screen in HDR mode and is identical how will your argument look? Will you not look stupid? You will because it is likely that is the reality of things....

Edited by Interceptor121
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17 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

I a

 I am totally cool 

 

 Great! Then stop being lazy and download that raw file which up until now showed zero downloads and show us all how seriously clipped it is and what a garbage it is. And while at it do it with this attached file which is the one you called garbage - or its avif

 

Now look up Merriam Webster definition of pedantic

 

Now see yourself focusing on highlights and whites at -100 completely disregarding the color profile listed which meant there was a curve thrown at the raw file which needed to be corrected. Not the raw file itself but its version processed with that custom Slog3 curve...

 

See where I am getting? you talk zeros and completely disregards ones... you talk ones and completely disregards twos... 

 

one thing for sure - you can't grade HDR image on SDR profiled monitor and rely only on visual tools... that's a nogo

20240319-113107.ARW

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RomiK/Massimo - enough. 

 

Please now stop. Members can draw out of what you have both set out as they see fit. 

 

Please do not continue this exchange any further.

 

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2 hours ago, RomiK said:

 Great! Then stop being lazy and download that raw file which up until now showed zero downloads and show us all how seriously clipped it is and what a garbage it is. And while at it do it with this attached file which is the one you called garbage - or its avif

 

Now look up Merriam Webster definition of pedantic

 

Now see yourself focusing on highlights and whites at -100 completely disregarding the color profile listed which meant there was a curve thrown at the raw file which needed to be corrected. Not the raw file itself but its version processed with that custom Slog3 curve...

 

See where I am getting? you talk zeros and completely disregards ones... you talk ones and completely disregards twos... 

 

one thing for sure - you can't grade HDR image on SDR profiled monitor and rely only on visual tools... that's a nogo

20240319-113107.ARW 59.39 MB · 1 download

A raw file has no color profile none. And color profile relates to gamut not gamma they are two different things

A RAW file generally has no gamma or gamut of its own. The editing file uses an intermediate space to do the processing that for sure contains the file. 

No matter what display you use adobe develop module works in prophoto rgb and does not care about your slog3 in fact nobody cares about it only the jpeg engine of the camera.

This is the raw histogram of your raw file showing just what is inside using the program rawdigger that simply looks at bit codes.

null

The histogram (which does not tell you the DR of the scene from the value but from the shape) shows a typical underwater photo with a dynamic range of more or less 8 stops (-5 to +3) which fits comfortably into any SDR color space before gamma compression

A standard gamma curve will hold 10 stops which leave 2 to fill up the space therefore you will need to increase (not decrease) contrast to saturate the sRGB gamma curve

if you white balance the image the DR drops to 5 stops as the res goes back where the others are

 

Pretty much fitting my whole example of underwater shots basically a bunch of images with low dynamic range unless there is the sunball in the frame

nullThis is the image as represented 

 

In the raw file some hints

 

Sony Tone Curve                 : 0 0 0 0

 

Picture Profile             : Gamma HLG2 (PP10)

 

HDR                             : Off; Uncorrected image

 

What this is telling you is that the RAW file is a simple linear file as you would expect and you shoot it with HLG2 however the file did not do anything with it (tone curve is flat) nor applied HDR

 

In case you have some area that for some reason looks overexposed (it does not look that way) a little adjustment of highlights will bring it in check

 

Now what I do not understand from this file and the image it contains is why would I need to spend thousands on an XDR display for a bog standard low contrast image. Enlighten me

 

The sunburst I showed are higher dynamic range photos with values that comprises the whole range so they are appropriate example to show that even those do not require anything special

 

Excellent can move on now case closed by your own example

 

image.png

20240319-113107-20240415-194709-RawDigger-ScreenShot.png

Edited by Interceptor121
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7 hours ago, RomiK said:

 

he (Massimo) is getting red for sure... but what do you do with a pedantic man who is spoiling the subject? He's unstoppable!🙈 

@RomiK The cease and desist is directed at you in particular, do you not understand the request to stop throwing insults around and stick to the subject matter?  Massimo is allowed to disagree with you as you are with him but we are requesting both of you do it by clearly and calmly stating your cases.  If you can't solve it that way please agree to disagree.

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